Baywatch, Playboy & Life with Hugh Hefner - Brande Roderick

Interview

00:00:00 Aleksandra King: Brande, thank you so much for coming on to the Beyond– the Beyond podcast. I am literally beyond excited to have you on. You are– you're a proper celebrity in every way. You've been on Baywatch. You've been on movies– Starsky and Hutch. You have just– you have got literally a résumé of– that you– Hugh Hefner's previous wife– I could just carry on and on. You literally– you're beautiful. You're a confident woman. You're an entrepreneur. Just– I want to literally pick your brain about so many things, and honestly I am so grateful that you've come on, you've given your time up to talk to us, and I know that our audience are going to love you. And yeah, I can't wait to dig in– learn more.

00:00:46 Brande Roderick: Thank you– for having me. Yes– me on. Such an honour. It's such an honour.

00:00:52 Aleksandra King: So you were quite young, weren't you, when you joined Baywatch?

00:00:57 Brande Roderick: You know what– I actually wasn't, in Hollywood standards.

00:01:03 Aleksandra King: Right.

00:01:03 Brande Roderick: I was 25 when I was on the show.

00:01:05 Aleksandra King: Very young. Come on. Well, it is and it isn't. It's like Hollywood actresses are like living dog years. Yeah.

00:01:12 Brande Roderick: But I– even when I became Playmate of the Year I was 26, and there had only been one other Playmate of the Year older than me. So that's– I was above– way beyond my years. I was getting old fast in those dog years there. But yeah, so I was a little more mature when I was getting my start.

00:01:34 Aleksandra King: Yeah, so 25. I think what you've got, though– you're blessed with– is this– you've got a baby face. That's the thing. I think you've got that youthful, lovely look that some people just have– is a genetic thing– and I think that that's just stayed with you, and because when I– I remember you actually from Baywatch, and I looked back at the footage because I knew you were coming on the podcast, and you– you had cute little baby face, and that's just– you either have that or you don't, so you've got it.

00:02:01 Brande Roderick: Yeah, I– it is funny how when we're younger we are, like, fuller faced– you got that baby face– you're more round, you know, and then as you get older you lose that, right?

00:02:12 Aleksandra King: Yeah. Goes– yeah. Yeah, exactly. Sad.

00:02:16 Brande Roderick: To– push it back up. Try so hard.

00:02:22 Aleksandra King: Yeah, and then obviously, because you were on Baywatch, you then worked with Pamela Anderson, David Hasselhoff, all those guys. What was it like working with them? What are they like?

00:02:32 Brande Roderick: Well, David– he is a character. He's so much fun to be around– whether we were on set or doing an autograph signing or going out, he just is so much fun, and just such a sweet, genuine, wonderful person. So he's a jokester and he likes to laugh, and so David– he was awesome– or is awesome. I just haven't seen him in a while, but he's great.

00:02:58 Aleksandra King: Oh, I remember him from Knight Rider. I just– yeah, I watched that, and so– and what's Pamela like?

00:03:05 Brande Roderick: Well, that's where he got his start, I think, right? I think– not– wasn't Knight Rider first and then Baywatch? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think he was younger in that. And then Pamela– we've known each other for a long time, because first the Playboy world, and then we did the Baywatch Hawaiian Wedding movie together. So we had already known each other and had that rapport, and so it's always nice having that familiarity–

00:03:31 Aleksandra King: She's like a friend– yeah, a friend to you, and someone that you're comfortable with on set and– and all that– that's really–

00:03:38 Brande Roderick: Yes. Yeah.

00:03:40 Aleksandra King: And yeah, because I was going to ask you– how did it feel to be on Baywatch? Did it feel like a powerful platform to you? Did you think, wow, now on Baywatch– this is to be– did it feel powerful, or did, you know, the image of being on there– obviously sexy blonde bombshell– did that affect you? Like, how was that for you?

00:04:02 Brande Roderick: Well, for me, it was like– I've made it. Yeah.

00:04:07 Aleksandra King: I've made it.

00:04:09 Brande Roderick: Like, I got my series regular role. I'm going to be on the number one watched show in the world. Like, you couldn't get better than Baywatch. It literally was, at the time, the number one watched show in the world. Yeah. So it was very exciting. I thought that I had just made it. And you think when you're going to something like that, it's going to last forever, right? But shortly after, unfortunately, it got cancelled. I was on the last– I was there– I was on the last season. But it honestly was like the best job I ever had. And it came–

00:04:49 Aleksandra King: On the beach in Hawaii, frolicking in the water with all the good-looking guys, including Jason Momoa.

00:04:55 Brande Roderick: Oh, yeah.

00:04:56 Aleksandra King: Wow.

00:04:58 Brande Roderick: But it was just so peaceful, so serene, living on an island with these other cast members. You become a family, because you only have each other. And we just all became so close and had the best time of our life, just living that beach life. And it was amazing while it lasted. I wish that we could have gone a couple more years, but it had already run 11 years, and I guess it ran its course. But it was– yeah, it was absolutely fantastic. It was one– one of the best experiences of my life, for sure.

00:05:32 Aleksandra King: Yeah. Because when you say it– people watched you around the world, literally. I watched that from South Africa. Right?

00:05:39 Brande Roderick: Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.

00:05:42 Aleksandra King: It was huge in South Africa.

00:05:45 Brande Roderick: Yeah.

00:05:47 Aleksandra King: No, madness. So, what– you say– because you speak of it fondly, but was there any sort of competitiveness that– any of that exist? I mean, normally it does in every workplace, but did any of that go on at any time?

00:06:00 Brande Roderick: Not really. I mean, I've been so blessed and so lucky my whole life, really. But we– I said we were like a family. Like, Stacy Kamano and I and Alicia Rickter all became best friends. The only other gal that was on the show was Krista Allen, and we got along fantastic. It just– I never– there was never any of that. And maybe it's because– and I don't really get around that, and maybe it's because I don't put that energy out there. So maybe I'm not threatening people– like, threatening to people– or I don't know what it is, but I don't really ever have that issue where there's– women are trying to be competitive and this and that. And maybe it's because I'm not. Maybe because– I don't know. I just– I'm lucky in that sense.

00:06:45 Aleksandra King: And also, if you're surrounded by other confident women, there isn't– there's nothing like that going on. There's no need for it, because all of you– you're all just amazing, and you're talented, and you're doing all these wonderful things. And I suppose there's not really any reason to be anything else, you know.

00:07:03 Brande Roderick: I mean, yeah, and there could be. I mean, obviously there's insecurities and everything, but I've just never experienced the mean girl thing, you know. It's like– you can have your own insecurities, but those are your own that you deal with, right? Not projecting them out on other people.

00:07:19 Aleksandra King: Yeah. So, what's the wild– wild or something unexpected thing that might have happened, you know, on set in Baywatch that we don't know about?

00:07:31 Brande Roderick: I mean, there were things that– again, Alicia Rickter– so we knew each other even before, because she was also a Playmate. So we knew each other from that Playboy world. But there were scenes where we're on the Sea-Doos, right? On the– the jet skis. She's behind me, and I– we're going to rescue someone. The cameras are on us. I got serious faces, jumping on the Sea-Doo. She puts her– up her hands in front of me, and pulls my boobs out. So in the middle of the scene I have– here I have serious– and she's behind me holding on, but then she goes– and here I am like–

00:08:05 Aleksandra King: Oh no.

00:08:07 Brande Roderick: Oh no. You don't have to– put it back on– and they have to cut. You can't get mad at her, because they just got a free show and they're laughing their asses off. But– but that– Alicia, don't do that anymore. We're trying to get the damn shot.

00:08:21 Aleksandra King: But that gives– that gives us an idea of some– the nice atmosphere between you guys, and you know, you're all young, you're having fun out there. It's just– yeah, it does sound like the absolute–

00:08:30 Brande Roderick: Yeah, we're just like silly kids, and having a good time and pulling pranks on each other, and– you know, it's funny, because I was just with Alicia. We spent Easter together– all of our kids and everybody– in Florida. So we still are always, you know, doing things together.

00:08:46 Aleksandra King: Yeah, that's really lovely, after all– all these years later. Yeah, all these years later. That's amazing. So, what came first? Was it– so, did Baywatch come first, or was it Playboy that came first, or how– how did that come about?

00:08:59 Brande Roderick: Well, as far as, like, to the world, they came out at the same– they came– they happened at the same time.

00:09:06 Aleksandra King: Okay.

00:09:06 Brande Roderick: So, my issue, April 2000– yeah– came out in April– April 2000, and I left for– for Baywatch in April. So they both happened in the same month, which is kind of crazy.

00:09:20 Aleksandra King: Yeah– that must have been a lot for– and you're all young, let's just– let's just be honest. Yeah. And you've got all that coming– you've got all the fame from Baywatch that's gone global. And then Playboy.

00:09:33 Brande Roderick: Yeah, and then right after that, kind of the same thing happened. When the show came out, I went and did– and got Playmate of the Year. So then it's– I went and shot the same time my issue– the other issue came out, but then my other Playmate of the Year issue came out as Baywatch was coming out on the screen. So it's just amazing how just simultaneously everything worked out.

00:09:58 Aleksandra King: What perfect– what is it like– what must it be like to be not only Playmate of the Month, but Playmate of the Year? I mean, that's– that's absolutely huge. How was that for you?

00:10:11 Brande Roderick: Yeah. It was– is very exciting. I mean, being one of 60 women in the world is pretty exciting. And when I got the call, I was actually living with Stacy Kamano, who I was on Baywatch with. We just gotten back to LA from Hawaii, and she was in the bathtub, and I was in the living room, and I got a call from Marilyn Grabowski, who was the head editor at Playboy, and she said, "Brande, how would you like to be Playmate of the Year?" I'm like, "Yeah!" And I was getting off the phone, and I went in and screamed– I was screaming to Stacy. She's jumping up in the bathtub with bubbles everywhere, and I'm– we're both jumping up, all screaming, excited. Oh, so yeah, that was also a very exciting phone call to get, just like it was when I got the call about being on Baywatch.

00:10:59 Aleksandra King: So– so how did your life change? What– like, what– what did that feel like?

00:11:04 Brande Roderick: I don't know. Well, I don't know that it changed so much, but I did get to continue to travel the world. When I was Playmate of the Year, they have us go to different places. I got to go to Japan, all over, touring. Just– it was just a wonderful experience, of course. And when I got that, it helped again bring my name out there even more. Continued to work and get other jobs, other gigs, so to speak.

00:11:35 Aleksandra King: Yes, so you're really– you're working very, very hard. You're travelling, you're getting to know all these new cultures, countries, and all of that, and you're– at this point you're very, very busy. It's probably going really quickly, the momentum of your life.

00:11:50 Brande Roderick: Yeah, it was– yeah– very busy all the time. Going to do something, whether it was a movie, a reality show, a TV show, an appearance.

00:11:59 Aleksandra King: Yeah. Whirlwind.

00:12:02 Brande Roderick: Whirlwind– a good– a really good whirlwind.

00:12:05 Aleksandra King: And part of that whirlwind is Hugh Hefner. So, how did you– how did you meet him?

00:12:13 Brande Roderick: Well, actually, we met the first time at one of his movie nights. A photographer friend of mine was really good friends with this gentleman named Elliot, who was very good friends with Hef. And he knew that I always wanted to be a Playmate.

00:12:32 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:12:32 Brande Roderick: And I was named after Playboy model. My mom had seen a girl by the name of Brande, spelled just like mine, with an E, in the magazine, and so I always knew– so I had this to live up to, right? She wanted me to be as beautiful as this girl in the magazine, so she named me after the girl in the magazine. So, the photographer knew this story, and he said, "I think I have a way to get you up there. Elliot's a friend of mine, blah, blah, blah." So I go up with Elliot, and at the time Hef was married to Kimberley. Yes, yeah. They– so I got to meet him, I got to go to the movie, and I told him my story about my mom and being named after Playboy model. He's like, "Oh, let's go try and find her." So he brought me in the library, and we went– started looking through all the magazines, trying to find Brande with an E.

00:13:20 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:13:21 Brande Roderick: But, you know, they were trying to get the movie started, and we're like, "We can only look through so many hundreds of magazines."

00:13:26 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:13:26 Brande Roderick: So we– we couldn't find it, but it was so nice of him and sweet of him to take the time and want to try to find this person. But that was my first encounter with him, and then I hadn't seen him for months, and then he and his wife had broken up. And so he started going out– and going out being single, and meeting people, and enjoying life as a single man. So, we met at a nightclub. What was it called? I think it was Opium Den. Opium Den.

00:13:57 Aleksandra King: Okay.

00:13:57 Brande Roderick: Anyway, so he was in the little VIP section, and I go, "Oh my god, there's [unclear: Hef?]." I run over and I go, "Hey, remember me? Brande. I'm the one with the mom that– you named me after." He's like, "Oh my gosh, yes, darling. Come in, sit down." So I was there with my girlfriend from up north, and we both sat next to him, one of us on each side, and we're like, "Oh my gosh." We both looked back behind him and go, "Holy shit."

00:14:23 Aleksandra King: I have to say, right, that that's a confident move, that. Knowing up to this, you have no– just making a big "Oh, hello." That's brave.

00:14:31 Brande Roderick: What do you have– what do you have to lose, right? You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

00:14:36 Aleksandra King: Wow. Impressive, yeah.

00:14:38 Brande Roderick: Was our next– our real meeting or whatever, and then we were inseparable ever since then. So we had a two-and-a-half-year courtship– relationship– and it honestly– just– so– like, again, some of the best times of my life were spent with that man. He brought me to so many wonderful places and experiences and things I never would have been able to do or experience had I not met him.

00:15:06 Aleksandra King: Like what? Like what, for example?

00:15:08 Brande Roderick: Like going to the Cannes Film Festival on this huge yacht, having the celebrity party on our yacht, walking that red carpet at the Cannes Film Festival– you know, living it in a way that no ordinary, normal person could live.

00:15:25 Aleksandra King: That's not normal.

00:15:27 Brande Roderick: No, it was just– it was a dream. You know, flying on the private jet over there– so, the whole time we're flying to Europe, we're dancing and eating and watching movies, and like– it's a big, huge living room or something. Just stuff like that. The stuff dreams are made of.

00:15:45 Aleksandra King: It's literally a story– like a princess– like a story– you– like, it's unbelievable, and you're living this amazing life. So, what was the– the mansion like? The famous mansion?

00:15:56 Brande Roderick: Well, it was very old-fashioned.

00:15:59 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:16:01 Brande Roderick: But I loved that. I love the nostalgia of it. You know, every year– or when, or how, or– however often, let's say, the carpet got dirty, he would replace it with the exact same carpet. Yes– like, things like that. Every time he would still keep it up, and it was fresh, but it was the same stuff that had always been there. Same style. So it was always kept that very nostalgic–

00:16:28 Aleksandra King: Yeah, it's very iconic, like, vibe. Even when I– when I think of the mansion– everything I've seen about it– also the mansion itself is famous. The– the grotto, you know– it's just– you see it so many times on TV. It's just featured. It's like– it's incredible. So, I suppose it helped that he kept things the same.

00:16:45 Brande Roderick: Yeah, I think so. Definitely.

00:16:47 Aleksandra King: Were there any rules you had to follow? Sorry– were there any rules that you had to follow in the mansion, or anything goes?

00:16:55 Brande Roderick: Rules? I mean, only normal, like, rules that you have when you have a boyfriend, right? Like–

00:17:01 Aleksandra King: Like what?

00:17:02 Brande Roderick: I mean, like– like, you're not going to– you don't go cheat on your boyfriend, right? But no, there were no rules, so to speak, but–

00:17:09 Aleksandra King: No shoes in the house? Nothing like that?

00:17:11 Brande Roderick: No, no. I can't think of any.

00:17:14 Aleksandra King: Yeah, and the– the other women in the house– like, I know you said that you don't give that energy– you can tell you're very relaxed, you're very confident. There's no– there's no issues, like, weirdness, nothing like that. But, like, the other women in the house– like, was there anything like that going on? Or also everyone just chill?

00:17:33 Brande Roderick: None of that? No. No. I mean, even Sandy and Mandy– and they– they were there part of the time, and we were like sisters. When they would come into town, it was– oh my gosh– we'd have fun, we'd go shopping, we'd hang out, we'd go to dinners. We're still very close. We still keep in contact. But no– and then the Playmates, when they would come into town, when they would do their testing, they'd come in and typically would stay in the guest house at the mansion when they do their testing. And same thing– just wonderful girls. They were always very sweet. They knew how to pick them. I don't know. They– they really knew how to pick the girls that were going to be Playmates. And I think that they'd looked at it like the whole package– the girl next door. So they were very picky on that. You'd have to have the right personality as well. It wasn't just about looks, because they knew that these girls had to go around and represent Playboy, and go do their promotions, and wear their [unclear: bunny?] costume, and– and represent Playboy. So they always picked very smart, beautiful, sweet girls. Yeah. One brand.

00:18:39 Aleksandra King: Oh yeah, that's really– that is intelligent, and that's what keeps the brand going on. Yeah, that's– yeah. Good business decisions there, I'll say.

00:18:47 Brande Roderick: Yeah. Yeah.

00:18:49 Aleksandra King: Did your time on Playboy change how people perceive you at all? Men? Anything like that? Or–

00:18:57 Brande Roderick: I mean, not that I– not that I was affected by. I– I feel like my whole life I had to– I've always had to work harder, because people have a certain perception of even just being a blonde, let's say, right? The typical dumb blonde. So you're always trying to prove yourself, right? Well, I'm no dumb blonde. So I– I feel the same thing with being on– in Playboy, or on Baywatch. You're always constantly having to maybe do a little bit more, maybe, than the average person, because you're having to prove otherwise than the typical stereotype. You know, even with going on The Celebrity Apprentice– for me, that was the perfect gateway to prove myself.

00:19:38 Aleksandra King: Yeah. Well–

00:19:39 Brande Roderick: I feel like I was always, and still to this day, always having to do more to prove my–

00:19:46 Aleksandra King: Yeah, and this is part of the reason why I'm so happy that you've come on, because it's– this whole subject around the image– you're– you are– you're a beautiful blonde. So, why can't you also be intelligent, and– have good business person, and have all this stuff? And you have proven yourself, and we're going to get to that. But I love that– I love breaking that– that up in people's minds, and showing you for who you really are. And you are sup– you're gorgeous, you're confident, and you're also incredibly intelligent and a very good business person. And that's just– you can be all that.

00:20:21 Brande Roderick: Thank you. Thank you. Yes. And let us break those stereotypes. Yeah– why– why does somebody's looks have anything to do with their intelligence? It's just– it doesn't make sense why people think that you have to be one or the other.

00:20:34 Aleksandra King: But it's almost, like, easier to– for people to– to put one in a category. Mhm. You can't be like this– because then it's easier for me to– it almost becomes too much. It's like, how can you handle being this amazing bombshell, but then you're– you're smart, and you can– can you be– how are you allowed to have both of those things? Right. It's confusing for people.

00:20:58 Brande Roderick: It's so confusing.

00:21:00 Aleksandra King: They can't wrap– wrap their head around it. Exactly.

00:21:04 Brande Roderick: Exactly.

00:21:05 Aleksandra King: So, let's– let's go a little bit into this, because then– so, you've had the Baywatch. You've– obviously, to get onto Baywatch, you've got to have acting skills anyway. You've got to be a good actress. You're– you're– these are serious roles– that you're saving someone's life. You've got to know how to– how to act. It's not easy. And then you've gone into all these roles. You've done Starsky and Hutch with Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson, Nanny Diaries with Scarlett Johansson, TV hits– Just Shoot Me, Beverly Hills 90210– which also I watched. So, I mean, how was that, getting those roles? Obviously doing all the things that you've done– so, going in, and now you're going for these more serious acting roles and movies– you're going to a different type of thing now. So, how did that feel for you? How was it? Did you have to fight harder?

00:21:48 Brande Roderick: I feel like I've always– you're always working hard. And my whole life I've always– I don't take no for an answer, right? I make sure to find a way to get what I want. And I get creative. And I think a lot of that comes from– I've been reading self-help books and advice books my whole life, and I think that it all just kind of– it's all sticks in there. So, when it would come to a really big role– for example, like Starsky and Hutch– I'm going up against all the other famous starlets. I'd already been on Baywatch at that time. So it's like everyone at that level. So I have to stand out. But I went into the audition, and Todd Phillips, who is now an Academy Award-winning director– he was in the room. Ben Stiller was in the room. And I had to do my scene with them. But I walk in, and they were like, "Brande! Oh, we loved you on The Surreal Life. We love that show." And Ben was saying, "Christine, my wife, and I love the show." And Todd said, "I'm a huge fan of Emmanuel Lewis." And he was on The– The Surreal Life with me. And I listen– I listen to everything they're saying, and I do my audition, and I feel like I nail it– but again, there's a million other girls out there that are going after this role. But anyway, so I leave there and I call Emmanuel Lewis, and I say, "Manny, you have to do me a favour. Autograph an 8 by 10 to Todd Phillips and say, 'Hire my girl Brande,' and sign it." So I put– I hadn't– put this in the mail, sent it to Todd. So Todd gets this thing, and they're looking at it like, "How crazy is this girl?" Right? I mean, she sent– sends me this thing– but I got the job. So, yes– and I do things like that, that are outside the box, that other people won't do, right? That's– that's the kind of stuff that I've always done. I did that with another casting director. I went in there, and she had a– a candle burning. I was like, "Oh my gosh, that smells so good. What is that?" When I left, I sent her a thank-you card and that candle– another one of those candles– and I'll tell you, man, she called me back all the time for those roles. She was a casting director for– for sitcoms, which is how I got Joey, how I got The Game– I was on two episodes of The Game. So it was just these little things that are so important, that I always make sure that I do, to get called back. Even after I do a job, I send a thank-you card to the producers, and I'll tell you, I get repeat acting gigs all the time, because I do all those things other people won't do.

00:24:25 Aleksandra King: You do.

00:24:26 Brande Roderick: And I'm very thankful.

00:24:27 Aleksandra King: Yeah, you do work harder. You take extra step that someone's not going to take, put the effort in that someone's not going to do. You feel like you prove yourself, and you're putting energy in, and that's appreciated, because also it shows that you really, really, really want it. So, why– why not?

00:24:46 Brande Roderick: And I'm also very grateful. And so, when I'm sending a thank-you note to somebody, I really am very thankful for the opportunities, because there aren't a lot of them, and you know, this is a small pool that we have, and a small business. Yeah. So I– I just– I am grateful for every opportunity and every job I get. So I– I definitely always want to share that as well. No– no diva behaviour. But yeah–

00:25:14 Aleksandra King: No. Definitely not. You'll never– I mean–

00:25:18 Brande Roderick: I don't think that anyone could ever say that I've ever been a diva on set. So–

00:25:23 Aleksandra King: No, you definitely don't give that.

00:25:26 Brande Roderick: I want to get called back. I want repeat business.

00:25:29 Aleksandra King: Yeah. No, for sure, for sure. And you're more likely to get it when you work hard. You've got that– you know, the ethic– the right work ethics, and they want to hire someone reliable, you know, for sure. Okay, we're going to move into a little bit of a different territory now.

00:25:44 Brande Roderick: Okay.

00:25:45 Aleksandra King: Men, confidence, female power.

00:25:48 Brande Roderick: Oh, yes.

00:25:50 Aleksandra King: So, you've– you've become known, I'd say, for confidence. You know, you– you give that off in a– in a very nice– I could say it's non-threatening way. But it's there, and that's wonderful. It's so– it's such a beautiful thing to have. So, asking you as a confident woman, you know– what do you– what do you find sexy in men?

00:26:14 Brande Roderick: In a man.

00:26:15 Aleksandra King: In general.

00:26:16 Brande Roderick: Well, I can tell you– it's not looks.

00:26:21 Aleksandra King: Right.

00:26:21 Brande Roderick: Okay– meaning, of course I can 100% appreciate a beautiful man, for sure. But for me, what turns me on would be a guy that is confident, and someone that is a gentleman, that's going to treat me like a lady. Yeah. Someone that– is– has a good job. Someone that's just– shows some sort of motivation and confidence. To me, all of that is attractive– and also a connection you have with someone. But it's not– it's usually– in my life, I haven't picked the typical good-looking guy. So, when I have a guy that I fall in love with, it's like they become so good-looking to me, but they might not be good-looking to, like, the average person that's looking at them. But I'm so attracted to them for their just– strongness, their security, their confidence, and the way they treat me. And the way they treat me as a lady– and that, you know– like, that's– that's huge for me.

00:27:29 Aleksandra King: Well, the thing is– and I– I completely agree– it's the confidence. It's so attractive to be confident, to have someone confident in life. And then, when they're confident, then they also know how to treat you, because they're confident with you, who's confident.

00:27:44 Brande Roderick: Exactly. Right. That's exactly it.

00:27:47 Aleksandra King: You're right, though, that a good-looking guy– the looks are– are ruined if there's no confidence. They– they kind of– they become–

00:27:54 Brande Roderick: Yeah.

00:27:56 Aleksandra King: It– it just doesn't work.

00:27:57 Brande Roderick: Well– or if– yeah, I mean, if– if they're not confident, or if they are arrogant or aloof, or– there's just– yeah, then that's– but if they have the whole package, then great. Shoot, that's fantastic. And there are people out there like that, of course.

00:28:13 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:28:14 Brande Roderick: But I don't– I– I wouldn't want– I don't want the average Joe out there to think that it's– women– that's what we look at, because that's not how we're made. However, men, on the other hand– I think men, a lot of the times, are made a little different, and they do kind of look at looks a lot of times. Unfortunately, that happens, too. But no– yeah. I– I– I think that men need to not worry about the looks so much. Yeah.

00:28:43 Aleksandra King: With themselves, or with women?

00:28:44 Brande Roderick: But I mean, just– they don't need to be worried about that so much, because we're not attracted– women aren't typically attracted to that.

00:28:51 Aleksandra King: Yeah. And I know that we– what I found initially attractive in my husband– and– is the– the confidence to say that he liked me, the confidence to go hunt in the right way. That– that's attractive, too.

00:29:05 Brande Roderick: The hunt– to be confident enough to do that hunting, to– to pursue you. Like, that– that's attractive. Men need to do that.

00:29:11 Aleksandra King: We want to be– yes, we want to be pursued. We want to be pursued. That– that's nature. It's human nature.

00:29:18 Brande Roderick: Make the effort. That's– absolutely. And– and don't get caught up on– I feel so bad for this younger generation that was in this world where– it's almost– this crazy feminist thing is happening, where they're– they don't want men to be men, and the women are supposed to now be alpha, and– I don't know– but it– it's not normal, it's not right. And men– be men, and you'll– you'll find a girl that you're supposed to be with. That– if you want a feminine girl, go be a man. Yeah.

00:29:53 Aleksandra King: Right?

00:29:54 Brande Roderick: You have to. If you want a bitch-ass crazy– I don't know– then you can be meek, and– and then you go get a woman that wants to control you. If that's what you want, then– then go for it. But if you want to be a man, and you want to be the man, then you'll find– you'll go and find your lady, and you need to act like a man– you need to go ask her out, you need to be– put your best foot forward, and not be afraid, and just do it. You just have to do it. I don't like what– what the– the– the new narrative is– what they're doing with men, where they want to take them– and these overly feminist women beating men down and saying, you're not allowed to be masculine, you're not allowed to show strength like that, you're not allowed to– the things that men would instinctively– that they want to do, they're not allowed to do.

00:30:39 Aleksandra King: And also, you're not allowed to give a woman a compliment– you can't do anything. Men are scared of doing anything anymore. What has–

00:30:44 Brande Roderick: Absolutely. Give someone a compliment anymore– come on. It's insane. I was just listening to a podcast, and I was shocked. I literally wanted to turn it off– and I bought this woman's book, and now I'm like, I wish I didn't buy it. But she was talking about, on this podcast, how– when she has her– so, her husband– she– as soon as he tried to open up a door for her, she told him, "No, no, no, mister. You're not opening up the door for me." So she's like, "I don't allow him to open the door for me." And I was like, are you freaking kidding me? You're that insecure about your femininity– femininity– that you not let a man open a door for you? I was just shocked. That's horrible.

00:31:25 Aleksandra King: If he doesn't help– I will not– I– if I'm with a man, whether it's my– my boyfriend, or– or– or a business colleague, or whoever it is, I walk right up to the door, and I stand there until they open it, because that's just the way it is. I just think it's bad manners– I think it's bad manners. You've got someone that's stronger than you, and he is polite. That– that's how I've been brought up to– gentlemen, too.

00:31:50 Brande Roderick: Absolutely– and I'm teaching my sons. My son will run up to a door before any lady and open a door for him– and that makes me– for them– and that makes me so proud. Like, that is something that should not go away. Chivalry should not be dead. I mean, those are the things that are so important, that make men feel good, makes a woman feel good. I just– it just was crazy to me that this smart woman who wrote a book was mad at her husband for trying to open the door for him.

00:32:21 Aleksandra King: Wrong.

00:32:22 Brande Roderick: He?

00:32:26 Aleksandra King: It's so wrong. I'm with you. I totally agree. I think it's really sad what's happening, and I think, like, we need the movement to stop this nonsense. It's gone too far. Men need to be allowed to be men, and do what they instinctively want. And women need– women– and just– we– yeah.

00:32:43 Brande Roderick: Absolutely. I– I– it's gone too far. Too far.

00:32:47 Aleksandra King: Yeah. So, what's the one thing that you'd say men get wrong when they approach a strong and confident woman? What do you think they do wrong– if there's anything they do at all?

00:33:00 Brande Roderick: Well, maybe something like– oh, well, you probably always get compliments, so I'm not going to give you a compliment. You probably always get treated a certain way, so I'm not going to treat you that way. They– sometimes men think it– think it's attractive– that they feel they want to try and be different, I guess, so to speak, but that does not work. That– that– a woman can never be told too many times she's beautiful, or smart, or getting compliments. You can't just assume that a woman was going to be hearing that too much. The– I don't think men should ever assume– assume that, because it's never going to be too much, right? We love hearing compliments. Thank you. And if a woman can't take a compliment and say thank you, then that's her own issue.

00:33:53 Aleksandra King: Yeah, I think we should– I think it– in general, in the world, where it's going– we don't give each other enough compliments. If something's great, if someone's doing something well, if you admire something in someone– tell them. If you mean it– it's genuine– tell them. Just tell them, and we can all improve, and we know then we're doing this thing right, and people admire it. It's a good thing to give a compliment.

00:34:13 Brande Roderick: 100%. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:34:18 Aleksandra King: So, I had a question here about– do you feel judged by other women for owning your sexuality– but I know the answer to that is no, because you don't give that energy.

00:34:27 Brande Roderick: Well, I– I– I do know that there are women that judge, for sure, right? That think that that's bad, or– or whatever it might be. But it just doesn't bother me. Because what they think in their world does not affect me in my world. As long as, you know, I'm okay with it, and I enjoy it, or whatever it might be, then that's fine. But if a woman is– is judging because maybe she's very religious and does not believe in that– well, that's her beliefs, and that's fine. That's her world, and I have my world, and what she's thinking in her own little world doesn't affect me.

00:35:07 Aleksandra King: Do you have things like– other women being scared to be your friend, or things like that, because they think, oh no– if, you know, if I bring her around to dinner party, my husband's going to fall in love with her? I mean, it's a very basic– you have something like that, or–

00:35:26 Brande Roderick: I don't think I really have too much of that, thank goodness. But one thing that– that I find in women that just meet me, that just kind of know me as, like– oh gosh, that's Brande Roderick– you know, I'm the celebrity, and we meet as friends or try to get together– that they try and talk– it's– it's almost like– I don't know how to put this without sounding, you know, crass– but they might, like, put down other women, or talk [expletive] about this, or talk [expletive] about some celebrities' plastic surgery, or they'll say, "Well, I met this celebrity, and oh, they were just an asshole." Or– it's almost like some sort of a weird mechanism they have, that they have to talk bad about stuff, and that is so not me. So it turns me off immediately, and I hate that. Like, they– they feel– I feel like they're trying to connect, and maybe by gossiping and saying bad things about other people, they feel they're going to connect. But that's not how I roll. I don't– I don't connect with people like that. I don't like it. So– but I think that it's a nervous energy that they have, and there is– nervous mechanism– but I do find that a lot when people first start– they don't know how to act or talk. I don't know.

00:36:42 Aleksandra King: Do you know what? I've got a– I've got a podcast coming up with a evolutionary behavioural psychologist at Oxford, here in the UK, and one of the topics that we're going to discuss is actually bonding through gossip. Bonding through– weird. It's so weird, but it apparently is a thing. So, you– you might be able to forgive this– this particular group.

00:37:05 Brande Roderick: Yeah, it apparently is a thing. That's why I was saying– I know it's just a– a nervous thing that they have, that they're just trying to bond, and I get it, but that's what women– for some reason– that's what– they don't like it. And I just– I don't care for it, and so, because that happens, I don't want to hang out with them again, right? Because it's– sometimes I– I get it, and I'm– okay, I'll just give them another chance, because I know it's just a nervous energy thing, and they're just trying to bond, but– yeah, it is a turn-off.

00:37:35 Aleksandra King: I– I had a– people can be aware of it, and– and recognise it, doing it, and maybe they feel better. It is a thing, I think. For me– I had this thing for parents, when the– you have the moms' night, that you– all the moms get together for their kids' year group, whatever– they get together and they chat– then sometimes they'll– even the gossip will be about kids– the kids– the kids whose parents not there. Let's talk about the kid– and I think that's– now you're talking about a kid here– an innocent child. No, let's not– let's not–

00:38:05 Brande Roderick: No good. No good.

00:38:06 Aleksandra King: Go and gossip. It's– it's not a nice thing.

00:38:10 Brande Roderick: Yeah.

00:38:11 Aleksandra King: I mean, we've touched on this already, but do you think society knows how to handle sexy and successful women? It's quite a– it's a– it's a– it's strange combination. It's sexy woman who's successful. Because smart, yes, successful– but also sexy and successful– that's almost even– even more incomprehensible, like–

00:38:32 Brande Roderick: Yeah, I– I think so. I mean, there's been lots of successful, sexy women, I think, that– that have been out there over the years. So I think that society can handle it. I think there's– you're always going to have those pockets of people that can't, but I think overall, I think yes. And honestly, it doesn't matter what society thinks, or, you know– it only matters what you think, and what you're doing in your own world. Yeah.

00:39:04 Aleksandra King: Yeah, no, I– I– I hear you. Yeah. I mean, it's– it's nice when, you know, with a podcast– obviously, speaking like this, and having a platform– it's lovely to be able to talk about things, and like the– the whole subject– the men subject we just spoke about. And– and as you know, there are views that society have about, you know, men– now bring them down– or, you know, if you're a certain kind of woman, you look a certain way, you're boxed into a certain thing. And I kind of almost feel like that's almost like a form of social bullying– that I feel like, if I see bullying, I feel compelled– like, I feel it's my duty in life to deal with a– the bullying– and that– the bullying– dismantle it, and be like– actually, no, no, no, that's not how we think. Let's just bring the tone down of that, and let's just come back to, like, a normal–

00:39:55 Brande Roderick: Right. Normal.

00:39:56 Aleksandra King: Situation.

00:39:58 Brande Roderick: Yeah, and that'd be great if there were more people like you trying to do that, right? I mean, that would be fantastic. But in our world, it seems like people are trying to almost do the opposite, right? Because it gets a rise, and it's– it's more fiery, or whatever it might be. But, yeah. But, yeah– we need more people to diffuse the bullying.

00:40:23 Aleksandra King: To diffuse. We need to diffuse. We need to– yeah, yeah– and bring down the whole– the feminist– the overly– that– I– I am so with you on that. That needs to come down, like, many notches down. That's– it's too much.

00:40:36 Brande Roderick: The problem is social media, right? I think that once you get on that little bit of– a little bit of it, then that's all they give you, right? It's like– brain– you're getting brainwashed. So, once you delve into that a little bit, then that's all you're getting fed, and it just lights that fire inside of somebody to become the extreme.

00:40:57 Aleksandra King: The extreme, yes. Yeah. So, I want to talk a little bit about your– your character, you know– your– your ability to be resilient, which has also come from personal reasons. You used to be married to NFL linebacker Glenn Cadrez. Did I pronounce that correctly?

00:41:13 Brande Roderick: You said that correctly.

00:41:15 Aleksandra King: I did. And then you had to– you went through a divorce.

00:41:19 Brande Roderick: Mhm.

00:41:19 Aleksandra King: And– how– I mean, that must have really– you know– you've got two sons together, is that–

00:41:24 Brande Roderick: Yes. Yeah. Yes.

00:41:26 Aleksandra King: So, how did–

00:41:27 Brande Roderick: Yeah, go on.

00:41:28 Aleksandra King: Go ahead. How– yeah, no, yeah. So, I mean, obviously going through a divorce like that, and you've got these two beautiful kids, and obviously there was a lot of love and all that, and then that goes. How do you–

00:41:39 Brande Roderick: Yeah.

00:41:40 Aleksandra King: How do you move– move forward, you know?

00:41:43 Brande Roderick: Yeah, I mean, you– you have to be, obviously, resilient and strong to get through that stuff. But what I came to realise is– because when you get married, you know, your dream is that you're going to be with that person the rest of your life. You're going to be sitting on the porch, watching your grandkids play– and then it doesn't happen. And so, what I found is– it's okay. It's a chapter in your life, and now you just have to come up with a new dream, right? So, now I just have a new dream, and my whole life I feel like I've pivoted. You know, I think pivot is– yeah–

00:42:18 Aleksandra King: I use a lot.

00:42:20 Brande Roderick: And so, I had to pivot and change the dream, which is totally fine now, and we all got through it, and Glenn and I co-parent very well, and he lives 7 minutes from me.

00:42:33 Aleksandra King: All right. Good.

00:42:34 Brande Roderick: You know, ride their bikes to school, and then they ride at the– back to each of our houses, and, you know– so it– it's– it's turned out wonderfully, and even though I would never wish that upon anyone, it's kind of been a blessing in disguise, because now I've met my life partner that I am with–

00:42:56 Aleksandra King: Mhm.

00:42:56 Brande Roderick: And he's an amazing, wonderful human being that I– I just can't imagine being without. So, for me it's like– you just– there is a silver lining in everything, and even– if during the darkest days, you will come out, and there will be light, and you just have to pivot and get through it when it's hard, and then it'll come out, and it'll be good again.

00:43:20 Aleksandra King: Yeah, it's lovely the way that you've framed it– the whole pivoting, and the chapter– that you see that beginning, middle, and then the closure– and that psychologically helps you just to– to frame that, and then regroup, I think, is– is a good way to move on.

00:43:36 Brande Roderick: Regroup. Yeah, I do a lot of regrouping.

00:43:39 Aleksandra King: And also allowing yourself that, because you have that closure, and it's a chapter– you open it mentally, you've put that mindset in there– you are then allowing yourself to open up to something else.

00:43:51 Brande Roderick: For sure.

00:43:52 Aleksandra King: A very strong way– psychological mindset way to think about things. You know, this is a little bit off-piste now, but I'm going to say it in there– it's just that it just triggered something in me the other day. I've got three cats, okay? And two of them are little– little ones, and they're– go quite crazy, and one of them caught a bird. I don't like them catching birds at all, but one of them caught a bird, and my daughter was like, "Oh my gosh, it's got a bird," and then I shouted at the cat and was like, "Let it go," and it let it go, and then I drove the bird to one of those wildlife hospital things, and it's like 70% chance it's going to be fine, or whatever. But the parents– so it's like a little blackbird– but the parents of the bird were circling the area, and obviously being upset and calling for their little baby, who I knew was fine, but it's, like, in a wildlife hospital, or whatever.

00:44:37 Brande Roderick: Yeah.

00:44:38 Aleksandra King: But– and then I was just curious, so I– I went on Chat to find out– on AI– do they grieve? What do birds do? And they– they do– for, like, 24 to 48 hours they've got a period where they– obviously, they're in shock, and then they circle, and they look around for their baby, or whatever. But then they move on. They regroup, and they look after, you know, the other ones, and they move on. And if they didn't do that, it would threaten our survival, wouldn't it? I mean, I know–

00:45:04 Brande Roderick: Right. But– well, that's– that's pretty amazing that– yeah, that– that– that's too bad we didn't have a 24-hour mechanism.

00:45:13 Aleksandra King: Well, obviously their lifespan is–

00:45:15 Brande Roderick: Regroup after 24 hours?

00:45:17 Aleksandra King: Yeah, in 24 hours. Yeah, no, but it just shows you about– it's survival of the species, and we do need to– because I've seen situations where someone has passed, and there is no– the ability to move on– it– is not there. Ooh. And–

00:45:33 Brande Roderick: Yeah.

00:45:34 Aleksandra King: And that– that is a– unfortunately, a thing. You wrote a book– Bounds Don't Break– as a guide to resilience.

00:45:43 Brande Roderick: Mhm. Yeah.

00:45:44 Aleksandra King: So, what would you say is the main takeaway from that lesson in resilience?

00:45:52 Brande Roderick: Well, I guess one little phrase, or something you could say, is like– when a door closes, find a window to crawl through, right? Like– you don't– you just– you don't– don't worry. You're going to find– you– you will find a way, right? You just have to find the way. Don't take that closed door as– that's it.

00:46:13 Aleksandra King: Oh, I love that– window. Crawl through the window, and move on.

00:46:16 Brande Roderick: And– and what's so important– it's– it's the– it's the getting back up that is going to change everything and make you stronger, and you just– you have to– you have to get back up. Mhm. Yeah.

00:46:30 Aleksandra King: Do you think there's any misconceptions about you out there that you'd like to clear up, or people might think they know about you they got wrong– anything like that at all?

00:46:39 Brande Roderick: I mean, maybe– people don't know that, in real life, I'm a dork.

00:46:47 Aleksandra King: All right.

00:46:48 Brande Roderick: I'm really a nerd. I'm a nerd. I'm a dork. Like, I go around and sing and dance outside, and my kids think I'm the biggest nerd. For example, we love The Greatest Showman– the movie. Yeah. We watch it all the time, and every single time a song comes on in the movie, I make all the kids get up, and we dance around, and we sing, and we jump on the couch, and we sing, and we twirl around, and then the song's over, and then we plop back down on the couch and watch the movie– keep watching the movie– and then another song comes on. So, I just do silly, dumb things like that, and it– my kids love it. They pretend like they don't love it. Like– "Mom, do we have to?" Yes, you do. Get up.

00:47:31 Aleksandra King: I think being a nerd is great. Nerds are the best.

00:47:35 Brande Roderick: By far.

00:47:36 Aleksandra King: Nerds are the best. Yeah. Yes. So– but then you did something more– you do more serious things, and you did Celebrity Apprentice. I mean, listen– I was on The Apprentice. It is hard, okay? It's like–

00:47:50 Brande Roderick: Yeah.

00:47:52 Aleksandra King: The stress– that you can see the cameras on you– you– in this environment– you stuck in this house with these people. I mean, I don't know what the– the setup was. Did you have to all live together in the–

00:48:01 Brande Roderick: [unclear: We didn't?] have to live together, but, as you know, it's like– you're spending a lot of time– 8-hour days– together. And that's one thing that– that people– there is that misconception, and people don't realise that competition reality shows are real. You cannot fake that. You're not allowed to. They have legalities, they have rules. It is all very real. And we were working, on average, 16 to 18 hours every day. Really did have these tasks we had to complete. But I loved it. Like, I– I thrive on competition. I thrive on working and getting stuff done, because I'm a doer. And I know I'll run, and I'll do, you know, do things that other people won't do– 100– like, all the time. So, for me, that was my area of expertise. That's where I thrive.

00:48:50 Aleksandra King: Thriving. I did see a scene of when you went down on your knees to ask for– or something. What happened there?

00:48:58 Brande Roderick: Yeah, so this was the very beginning, and this was the– for the very first task, and I knew that I had a lot of money that I was going to raise. And so, the first task was a money-raising task. So I wanted to be project manager, because I knew I was going to raise all this money, and– and– who was it? Bret Michaels– he said, "Oh, I want to be project manager," and blah, blah, blah– but he didn't have money coming in. He wasn't really a big money guy. So I was like, I really need this task. So I got on my knees, and I begged. I said, "Please– you can have the next one. Blah, blah, blah. Give me this one. I want to be it." And I got it. I got my way.

00:49:35 Aleksandra King: Yeah. Like you say– whatever you need to do, in whatever way. But that's a very charming and disarming way of getting what– it's very smart.

00:49:43 Brande Roderick: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I tried– I tried all the little things, and I had to– I– I think of the person that I'm speaking with, trying to get what I want. And– and then I knew– I figured out what– what was going to work, so that worked.

00:49:57 Aleksandra King: Yes– so you– you enjoyed your time on– on Celebrity Apprentice, and– and all that.

00:50:01 Brande Roderick: I really did. I mean, it was a fan– a wonderful experience. It was not easy. People might think it's easy, right? Definitely not easy. I learned a lot, and I raised a lot of money for my charity. So, I am– for me, it was a success. I– I really–

00:50:18 Aleksandra King: What charity? Over again– what charity?

00:50:22 Brande Roderick: First– first time I did it, was called CPIC, which is California Youth Police Charities, and that brings money to– as– at– at-risk youth. They give them school– schol– scholarships, give them computers– stuff they couldn't normally get if– if they didn't have these programmes. That was the first time. Then, when I went back for the All-Stars, I did it for charity called Promises to Kids, which was a– an orphanage in San Diego. So– brought money to those kids.

00:50:49 Aleksandra King: Mhm.

00:50:50 Brande Roderick: So, for me, it was always about kids. It was just that– that's my–

00:50:53 Aleksandra King: What– what touches you.

00:50:54 Brande Roderick: Yeah– 100– 100%.

00:50:57 Aleksandra King: And then you've launched businesses. You've partnered with Adam Levine on a luxury shoe line, created a networking platform. So, you've done– you're pretty entrepreneurial. So, where does that– why– how– where does that come from, the entrep– entrepreneurial streak? Like, why do you have that, do you think? You know, that's not a normal thing. It's not a normal thing to have. It's not.

00:51:18 Brande Roderick: It's really not. Yeah, I– I– I– I– I don't know where that comes from, but I love creating. I love creating things. Like, most everything that I've done is something where I get to be creative and start something. So, whenever something doesn't work out, or this business didn't work out, then I'm ready to do the next. I pivot.

00:51:40 Aleksandra King: Yes, there's– again, there's that pivot word. So, you've never thought about being an employee– employed by someone, in– in that traditional sense? That's never crossed your mind? It's always– always been entrepreneurial– is that right?

00:51:53 Brande Roderick: No– I mean, because when I got my first job, when I was 14– I got hired, but I didn't start till I was 15– I worked at a health club as a telemarketing manager.

00:52:04 Aleksandra King: All right.

00:52:04 Brande Roderick: And I– I worked at that health club for 8 years. So, that was– I was employed by this person. But then, when I was in high school, I was like– high school's not for me. I want to get out. I want to make money. I want to buy a house. I want to– I was very much into– I loved real estate. My parents always, like, tore down and– and fixed up homes, and that was kind of a thing. So I decided to graduate a year early, and I went to junior college, and I took independent studies. So I graduated a year early, on my 17th birthday.

00:52:37 Aleksandra King: Nice.

00:52:37 Brande Roderick: And then I went right away to get my real estate licence, and then, shortly after that, moved to Hollywood. But I always– that's so– I– I did work for someone else, but it's just– I just– I like to create, and I like to– I don't know.

00:52:54 Aleksandra King: So, you have a real estate licence?

00:52:57 Brande Roderick: Oh yeah– I've had it since I was 18.

00:52:59 Aleksandra King: So, you could be on Selling Sunset.

00:53:02 Brande Roderick: Oh. No– because I could, but I– it's not my– I don't like doing it for other people. Like, listing homes, and doing– and showing people properties– I'll do it for family and friends, and I do it for myself. I'd like to search and find a piece of doo-doo, let's say, that looks like crap, but nobody else sees the vision– because I'm very much a– I don't know what the right word is. I– I don't want to say– I guess, a visionary– because I can see something. Even with my house– I walked in, and there was this wall– Yeah. –and then you have to go around– go outside– there's all these trees. Yeah. But if you go around the trees, there's this amazing view. And I'm like– why would anyone block that view with trees and a wall? So, guess what I did. I knocked down the trees. I knocked down the wall. And I did this beautiful, big, sliding open door, where you just walk out, and there's the view. So, I– I see that. I– I can see past the ugliness– I guess that's a good way of putting it. So, for me, I love going and buying homes that people– because most people can't see past the ugliness at all. They can't envision something else.

00:54:12 Aleksandra King: Well, it's entrepreneur– it's entrepreneur. It's the idea, and then you're creating– you're making something. You can see that you're adding value. You're taking something, you're transforming it, you're turning it into– it– because it's a business– you can sell that then, because it's got the superb view. But you're doing– you're adding value to things. That's just an entrepreneurial mindset.

00:54:33 Brande Roderick: Absolutely. That's a good way to put it, because that's the way I look at it when I'm– I– I feel like I add value to things. So, thank you for saying that.

00:54:40 Aleksandra King: Yeah. I– I think so, too. So, has there ever been a moment where you've been underestimated, you know– a lot– where you've had to sort of go– okay– and– let me– let me– let me show you who I am? Has there been a moment like that, that you–

00:54:57 Brande Roderick: Nothing too major, but I do have a story, like– even– with that– has to do with The Celebrity Apprentice.

00:55:03 Aleksandra King: Okay.

00:55:04 Brande Roderick: So, when we were talking about– when my agent was talking with them, they weren't 100% sold on me, because, as you know, with The Apprentice, you have to have that business acumen. You have to show you're– smarts, right? So, they– the producers wanted to meet with me. So, we went and had lunch at the Beverly Hills Hotel. Yeah. And we were talking, and I was telling them and explaining to them about all my businesses and what I do, and they're like, "Okay. We get it. Okay– yes, you're very intelligent, and that's great." And they said, "But what about, like, celebrities bringing in money, and all that? Do you have that? Can you do that?" Because that's a big part of the show– the celebrity version– is bringing in celebrities and money.

00:55:45 Aleksandra King: Yeah– context– celebrity. Yeah.

00:55:48 Brande Roderick: So, we're sitting there, and as they asked that question– I kid you not– Russell Simmons and Brett Ratner walk into the restaurant, across the room– "Brande, what's up?" And they come walking up– and at the time– this was 2008– Brett Ratner was probably the hottest director at the–

00:56:05 Aleksandra King: Oh, of course.

00:56:07 Brande Roderick: Rush Hour just came out, and he's doing all these big movies. Russell Simmons– he's this freaking music producer at the time. And they're massive. I get up, they give me a hug, and they walk to their table, and I said to them– I said, "Does that answer your question?" And they're like, "You're hired."

00:56:25 Aleksandra King: I love that. I love that. That's so cool. I love that that happened.

00:56:29 Brande Roderick: It was a perfect moment. I mean, it almost was like– I paid them and planned it, or something– but it couldn't– more perfect timing.

00:56:36 Aleksandra King: Yeah, it's lovely that it was genuine as well. That– that adds to the beautifulness of it.

00:56:42 Brande Roderick: Mhm.

00:56:42 Aleksandra King: So, you have a new movie.

00:56:45 Brande Roderick: Yes.

00:56:46 Aleksandra King: [unclear: Blindfold?] And not only are you in it– you directed the movie. Like– and–

00:56:53 Brande Roderick: Seriously– and starred in it.

00:56:55 Aleksandra King: And you produced it.

00:56:57 Brande Roderick: And–

00:56:57 Aleksandra King: And you produced it.

00:56:58 Brande Roderick: Produced it, most importantly.

00:57:00 Aleksandra King: Let's just sit back. You did all that. Okay– you went from acting–

00:57:04 Brande Roderick: Yeah.

00:57:05 Aleksandra King: When you say you– you– you pivot, you really pivot. You've done all these things. That is huge, to have done that. How, why– how did it go? Are you happy with it? Tell me.

00:57:17 Brande Roderick: I'm very happy with– I'm very happy with it, and I just– I was at a time when I– I have to make the next step, right? And the next step for me was creating my own project. And when this came about, it was kind of during COVID, and there was no work, right? There– you weren't allowed to– there was no work, and so I'm– I'm just like– well, I've got to do something. I'm not going to sit around– and– but I've been in the business for so long. I have so many connections. I have so much experience. I'm like– I think I can do this. I think I can do this on my own. But, that being said, there was a lot to learn, and I'm lucky that I know a lot of people in the business. So I made a lot of phone calls, all the time, and I listened, and I asked questions, and I researched, and I read, and I probably listened to a million books a week. So, I– I felt I was ready, and I wanted to create something that was familiar to me, and that's the genre– horror films. Yeah, I love horror.

00:58:17 Aleksandra King: That's like– yeah– it's– it's– I love it, too.

00:58:20 Brande Roderick: And one of the thing– but, of course, I'm a business person, right? So I talked to my producer friends and said– what is the easiest genre to sell? Because– yeah– I'm going to make this movie, and I'm not just going to make a movie to make a movie. I'm going to do it to make money.

00:58:32 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:58:33 Brande Roderick: So, they all said, at the time, was horror. So it went hand in hand. It was perfect, because that's what I wanted to do, and– so, I– I did it. And– and it wasn't easy. It was not easy.

00:58:44 Aleksandra King: Easy– I mean, you– with a film, it's all the different angles, and the– the– the– I mean, so much. You know, being on Apprentice– something like that– you learn what goes into a very serious production. Also, you know, the podcast studio– the camera work, the sound editing, the different types of cameras, the lenses, the– the possibilities of how to shoot– that– it just– you walk into it, and it is Pandora's box. So, you must have had to learn very, very quickly.

00:59:10 Brande Roderick: I had to learn quickly. There was always hurdles and roadblocks that we had to pivot and get around. It was constant, from the very beginning– from the pre-production all the way to post-production. But I will say– as hard as it was, I would do it again in a second– all the time, all day long. This is the job that I would do for free. You know, they always say you'll never work a day in your life if you do what you love. And that's how I feel about producing a film and acting in it. I– I just– I love it so much. But again, it is freaking hard. But I love it, you know? It's, like, funny that they could be the same thing, right? That you can love something that's so hard– but it– but it's so true. And the first day of being on set, I just– I remember pulling up, and I looked around, and it was just this most amazing– I'm almost getting emotional just thinking about it. It's like– it was the most amazing feeling. Wow– I did this– and it just felt so good. I felt confident. I was excited, and I couldn't wait for it to start. So, it– I– I think that it's fun when you can find something that you love, that you're so passionate about.

01:00:26 Aleksandra King: Yeah. And– and– and hearing you speak, you are– it sounds to me– and I'm– I'm picking up the energy all the way from across the pond– you're in– you are in the right place, at the right time, doing exactly what you should be doing.

01:00:40 Brande Roderick: And feel it. Yeah. It– it's a cool thing. It's pretty neat.

01:00:45 Aleksandra King: That's awesome. So, what's next for you, Brande? What– what's next? More movies? What do you think?

01:00:52 Brande Roderick: Well, I have my– my book here, of all my ideas, and I write a lot. I'm very creative. I mean, I– I like to write stories, and I have a lot of different movies, and I have a lot of different series. So, once I get Wineville, you know, really off and running everywhere, then I can really sit down, at that moment in my life, and pick, like– which of my stories am I passionate about right now, in this moment, that I want to pursue? Because I have all-over-the-board stories– comedies, horror, thrillers, real-life tragedies– like, real– real-life fun thing– like, there's so many different thoughts I have. And so, depending on where my life is at in a couple months– once I've got– and running– I will decide which avenue I want to go, but it will be a film, or a, you know– a TV series. Definitely.

01:01:47 Aleksandra King: I'm sure, speaking to you, it's going to be a whole bunch of different things. So, we better prep on and see what it is. Yeah.

01:01:55 Brande Roderick: Yes– prep on.

01:01:57 Aleksandra King: Brande, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much. I can't wait to see what you do next, and– yeah. Thank you.

01:02:03 Brande Roderick: Well, if– if your listeners would do a fellow Apprentice entrepreneur– independent filmmaker– a solid, I would love it if everyone would go out and watch Wineville, though.

01:02:14 Aleksandra King: We're going to– we are going to post links. We– we will post all of the links, and– and all of that, for sure, on our– on our channel. So everyone will be able to see the movie, for sure, and we'll make it easy. But yeah– it's been– it's been amazing having you on. Thank you.

01:02:30 Brande Roderick: Thank you. I had so much fun chatting with you.