Michael Howard: The Truth About Building a Business– Pressure, Pain & Profit

Interview

00:00:00 Aleksandra King: I know someone called Mark Wright.

00:00:02 Michael Howard: You do, and so do I.

00:00:03 Aleksandra King: Yeah, and so do you– who opened that door and said Michael Howard might be someone that you really want to speak to as far as the whole business side of things– grow, how do you start.

00:00:13 Michael Howard: I'm flattered. Yeah– so, good old Mark. I'm flattered.

00:00:17 Aleksandra King: Because you're an incredibly credible business person. What you've built from the ground up, from being an employee to becoming the CEO, the owner– you've done it. All of us are going to enjoy picking your brain here, because I have questions from the public.

00:00:36 Michael Howard: Great.

00:00:36 Aleksandra King: Okay– popular ones that people are asking, and people really need help with. A lot of our viewers do want to go into business. They're thinking about it, or they are– they've just started a business and they might be struggling. And it's not easy asking for help.

00:00:51 Michael Howard: It's not easy running businesses. Everyone struggles running a business– it's part of what it's like. It's hard, no matter what anyone says, and no matter what anyone looks like. Below the surface of all the razzmatazz, it's hard. But whether you're a one-man army or you're running a multimillion-pound company, it's tough. It's not easy for anyone.

00:01:18 Aleksandra King: How would you introduce yourself?

00:01:20 Michael Howard: I have– there's two sides. There's family and all of that side to life, and then there's the business side. Now, I grew up in difficult circumstances, with a broken home and without anything that you would have today. We got the bus, we didn't have a car, we had no money– we were broke. So having the opportunity of being involved in business and to have some degree of success is a huge focus. And I think that the two forms of motivation– either towards success, or away from pain. Away from pain is much more motivational than towards something good. So my motivation has always been away from pain– the pain of being broke, or pain of just being in an awful circumstance. I mean, I was homeless when I was 17– very briefly. I mean, I wasn't on the streets, but it was miserable. So a huge part of my life has been running the business. As I said just now, it is a struggle, no matter what people see or think. And all of the stuff that we all see on social media, or on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok, about all these guys in Lamborghinis and cars– below that, if it's all true, below that is an enormous amount of stress and hard work, for everyone, no matter who you are.

00:02:43 Aleksandra King: I love that you've said that, because that is just a fact. One of those things about business, isn't it?

00:02:49 Michael Howard: Well, I watched a great programme on Andy Murray, the tennis player– documentary. And you see Andy Murray come out– he's a superb tennis player, but behind the scenes he's got this team around him of nutritionists, he's in the ice bath– he doesn't want to ever do it, no one would want to really do that, I know it's meant to be good for you– but he's eating steamed chicken breast, because it's all pro– everything is measured.

00:03:15 Aleksandra King: I see.

00:03:15 Michael Howard: It's incredible. And you think– the training, relentless, every single day. What you eat, what you do when you wake up– it's all prescribed, to be the best in the world. And I think a lot of people think, finish his Wimbledon and off on a holiday. It's just not like that– it's hard. And I think people don't appreciate what goes on, for anyone who has any success, behind the scenes. You have to be tough and resilient, and all those sports people are. I think we have to really [respect?] what they go through, and what they put themselves [through] is enormous. And business people have their version of that. All business people.

00:03:51 Aleksandra King: Are you tough and resilient?

00:03:53 Michael Howard: Yeah, I think you have to be. I'm definitely resilient, because you can't spend 40 years, as I have, without being. There's bad stuff going on all the time as well as good stuff, and you have to ride the good with the bad. Businesses are like that. I mean, look at the guy who would want to be in the government– look at what they go through. Wow. Business people, sports people, anyone that's doing anything– you have to be resilient. I mean, if you have children, you have to be resilient, because it's not just a world of pleasure, right?

00:04:30 Aleksandra King: Exactly. Well, I've got a few of those. Yeah– I think learning is key. I'll go back to something you said about your childhood in a minute, but before we do, tell us about what you're doing business-wise. So for anyone that doesn't– hasn't heard of you, what are you doing?

00:04:44 Michael Howard: So I run a company that designs and fits out offices and educational spaces. We design it for clients, we do all the building work, we fit it out. We've got about 250 people in total. We're in central London, we work throughout the UK. It's a good business. It's very competitive, so you have to be tough and resilient. And I started– I didn't start the business, but I joined the company when I was 19. I literally knew nothing, and the company at that point was, I think, seven or eight people. So it's grown enormously. It's a profitable, steady, good business with great people, and I have the privilege to run it.

00:05:29 Aleksandra King: And you're running it incredibly well. Let's go back to something you said about your childhood. I was watching a podcast the other day, and there was something about people that go into business are quite often– actually, it was the gentleman that wrote Elon Musk's biography.

00:05:50 Michael Howard: Yeah, I saw him on TV recently.

00:05:53 Aleksandra King: And Steve Jobs' one– so he's incredibly insightful. And he was saying that actually, what he's found is that very often business people are people that have come from a somewhat turbulent background. Not always– the ones that don't have just a drive that comes from elsewhere– but very often the ones that have come from stressful– the stress– there's something that you seek in the unpredictable, that you're almost like used to that chaos. You're used to the unpredictability– it's just the way you roll, you've adapted like that. And then without it, life would– if you went– just had a very nice, easy, comfortable job– and I'm not taking that away from anyone, because it can be very good and stable in all ways– but it almost, for people that have had that childhood, it seems almost like– well, that it's that drama.

00:06:39 Michael Howard: Yeah– well, it's away-from-pain motivation, isn't it? Because when you're– when you've grown up with pain, in a dysfunctional house– chaos– when you have chaos, when you have no money– money is a real– whatever anyone says, there's that old saying that money can't buy happiness, or love, or whatever. Well, that may be true, but it's not really designed to do that. Money fixes a lot of stuff.

00:07:04 Aleksandra King: Oh, so much.

00:07:04 Michael Howard: It just does. And it's not necessarily designed to make you happy, but it is designed to fix a lot of things. You can get out of a lot of fixes. If I leave here today and I've got no money, I'm going to wait for the bus, and if the bus doesn't come, I'm going to have to figure out how to get to where I'm going. If you've got money, you can order an Uber, you can order whatever– you have options, you can fix things. Yeah– I think if you spend a lifetime, as I did growing up, where we had to walk and get on the bus to go anywhere or to do anything, then you're highly motivated to have a life where you don't have to do that. When I was young, my father left when I was about five, and we were really– I mean, we were not– probably we're not like– we weren't living on the street, but we were broke. My mother was a cleaner– she had about three or four jobs. We had a fridge, and the door broke, and there was a stool that we had that was against the fridge door to keep it closed. For my whole life, from age five to when I left home at 17, that was the case. If anything broke, it wasn't repaired. There was no resources, and there was no money, and my mother wasn't very resourceful– not against her, but she was working as a cleaner, and she cleaned offices, she washed up in hotels. So you're brought up like that– that's the only thing you know. It's painful. You live in fear of things breaking, and you can't fix them, because there's no way out. And suddenly then, when you get out of that, you think, well, I can just fix that. If the fridge door breaks, I'll come buy a new one.

00:08:53 Aleksandra King: That's intense. That– that is intense. That's almost like a symbol of what price–

00:08:57 Michael Howard: You don't know it at the time– it's your norm. And then, I remember my friend– my mother used to go shopping every day for food– every day– because she earned money daily and weekly from cleaning. So there wasn't a bank account– it was all cash, and you didn't have the money to go and buy food for the week, ever. So everything was bought on the day. And I remember my friends– like, why does your mum go shopping all the time? Why doesn't she just buy stuff and put it in the freezer? We didn't have a freezer– we only just had a fridge. And the cooking pan was probably the same pan for 10 years. It was very much like that. But it's not poverty– that– it's just poor, or broke. It's not terrible– there was a TV, and– well, we didn't have any heating, but it wasn't– this far worse, yeah– than what I grew up in.

00:09:52 Aleksandra King: How has the fact that she was shopping every day, and had those little bits of money that she spent to buy you food, you know, to look after you guys– how did that impact your view of money, and how you use money, and how you save?

00:10:08 Michael Howard: Well, there was no role models. You didn't look at the guy with a nice car– there was none of that at all. So you had no sense of what was possible. There was no ambition– it was just about surviving. But also, I was never ambitious– and still not massively ambitious– for the pleasurable stuff. I'm more ambitious for– I don't want to be broke, or to stand in line, or to struggle. Even today, I'm not motivated by the luxurious items– to not struggle. I'm motivated not to be broke.

00:10:49 Aleksandra King: Be broke, yeah. And actually, you're spending your business life– because we know, being in business, that you're fixing things all the time. You're fixing them so they don't break.

00:11:00 Michael Howard: Yeah.

00:11:00 Aleksandra King: So you don't go broke.

00:11:01 Michael Howard: You know, even the other day I bought some clothes, and I remember thinking, I won't wear this today because I'll save it for best, like I used to as a child, or when I was younger. Well, I don't really need to worry about that these days– I can just wear it, and if I stain it or do something with it, I can have it dry-cleaned, or I can buy another one. But that mentality– some of that mentality is still with me. Some of it's good– some of it is grounding, and good– and others is limiting.

00:11:37 Aleksandra King: Not be wasteful.

00:11:38 Michael Howard: Absolutely. And some of it is limiting– like, oh my god, I don't need to worry about that stuff. I mean, I'm nearly 60. And I haven't really had to massively worry– even though I do– I haven't massively had to worry about money for probably 20 years. But I still do, and I'm still highly motivated not to be broke, and not to have to put up with all the stuff that I had to put up with, you know, a long time ago.

00:12:05 Aleksandra King: Interesting– interesting. So you've made millions– lots of money that you've been handling, personally and through your businesses. You've built an empire. Yet you want to remain quiet on social media. I couldn't find you on LinkedIn– I mean, that to me is madness– you weren't even on LinkedIn. I had to literally dig, and I found you in the depths of YouTube, actually. You've shared the stage with Piers Morgan, with Lord Sugar, with these people, at these very important, meaningful business events. But apart from that, we don't see you much. Why?

00:12:46 Michael Howard: Well, seeing me now.

00:12:48 Aleksandra King: You don't want to be famous, do you? You don't want to be the face of the brand. You're not interested in any of the things that– you know, I– let's be frank here– I find that I like that thing. I want to be the face of my brand, I want to be out there. But you're not. You're very much under the radar, and working.

00:13:08 Michael Howard: Yeah. I mean, it's not hugely deliberate– otherwise I wouldn't be here, and I wouldn't have done my thing with Piers Morgan and Lord Sugar all those years ago. I was on LinkedIn, but you spend so much time responding to all these messages and all these connections, and everyone wants something– they all want something– and I can't spend my whole day figuring out to connect with this person– maybe this is too much. So I'm not on LinkedIn, I'm not on Facebook, I'm not on anything. My interest is so low– I'm busy. I'm either with my family, doing family stuff, or I'm working, and there's nothing else. I have four kids, and they take up– I want to spend as much time as possible with them, and also I want to run the company. So I don't really want to be famous at all. And why would it– who would be interested in someone like me being famous? I mean, there's much better people to be famous– they'd be much better at it. Lots of people that want to be famous, and lots of people have done very well by being famous, from reality shows and stuff– I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all– but I've just had my head down, working, really. And I don't think there's anything wrong with what anyone wants to do, but for me, I just find it a distraction.

00:14:31 Aleksandra King: It is a distraction, if you think, from work. Yeah.

00:14:34 Michael Howard: But I think it's good for some companies. I mean, from Mark Wright– I think, you know, for him, being on The Apprentice was hugely helpful. And did the– what– I'm doing office interiors. It's not going to make– not a lot of people going to tune in to figure out whether I can help them with their office.

00:14:56 Aleksandra King: You're very humble, you're very modest, and that's why I'm so pleased that you've taken the time to come and talk to us. Because, as I say, you're a rare– you're a rare find. Let's just go back to the younger you, at 19, and what made you go from being an employee to wanting to run the place? How did that happen?

00:15:15 Michael Howard: It wasn't deliberate. At 19, I knew nothing. You could remember– when I was 19, there wasn't mobile phones, there wasn't social media– there wasn't nothing. So no, I didn't think I could conquer the world or do anything. At 19, I was just surviving. I was, like, waiting till the end of the month to get paid. But there's opportunities came to me, and I took them. I think that's what I–

00:15:42 Aleksandra King: A lot of opportunities– like what?

00:15:43 Michael Howard: Well– well, someone said– you know, when I was working at the company I'm working for now, that I own now, someone would say, well, could you do this? I'd be like, I'll do that. I was willing to do pretty much anything, because I was desperate. I was desperate to have some degree of success, but the success wasn't like, look at me, I've done well. It was more like, I don't have to be broke. That's always the motivation– not to be broke. So I was willing to do– I remember the guy that used to own the company– he used to go into the office every Saturday morning. In those days, no emails, so it was loads of post, and it was always opening the post, and, you know, what letters that arrived from a potential client. And I used to go in every Saturday, just to be there and watch him.

00:16:35 Aleksandra King: Interesting.

00:16:36 Michael Howard: I had nothing to do, and it was probably only two or three hours, but it was my way out. You know, it was my way out of being broke. So I gave it everything. And I think at the time, my group of friends from school disappeared, really– I don't think they could really relate to me, because they were doing their own thing, they were on their own path, and I was just working. And I was fascinated with business, and how it could all work. It wasn't like I was ambitious– I just wasn't. I was just surviving. But what I did do is I took pretty much every opportunity, and that really, really paid off. I didn't let an opportunity pass me by, almost no matter what it was. So I learned a lot.

00:17:28 Aleksandra King: That's a fearless mentality. Of self-development– a lot of books on your bookshelf. You've got a Tony Robbins book–

00:17:35 Michael Howard: That was the second book I ever read, that one. Yeah. In my life.

00:17:39 Aleksandra King: A lot of audio cassette tapes.

00:17:42 Michael Howard: I had to educate myself, because I was completely uneducated. I left school at 16 with zero qualifications– not that I necessarily think that I would have been any better off if I had– but I was educating myself in life. So it was my way out– through work and through self-education was my way out of being broke, as– how– what I thought at the time.

00:18:08 Aleksandra King: What you're saying– you really took control of yourself, by educating yourself, sorting out your mind, and the control of the situation, to gear it to a yes mentality. And then you executed, and you were there. And if it was a Saturday, you were there on a Saturday.

00:18:27 Michael Howard: Yeah.

00:18:27 Aleksandra King: And if that's not ambition, I'm not sure what is. But that is–

00:18:30 Michael Howard: I– I don't think it was deliberate ambition, do you know what I mean? So, I mean, I would go and buy these motivational cassette tapes at the time– that then turned into CDs– and I would record each one of them, because I didn't want to harm or lose the originals, because I paid a lot of money for them, and I was–

00:18:54 Aleksandra King: Your preservation, yeah.

00:18:55 Michael Howard: And I used to– in the boot of my car, I had packets and packets of cassette tapes, and I would go through– the radio was never on– I would listen to these cassette tapes, I mean, for years and years and years of my life. You get in my car and it would just play the cassette, and then obviously a CD. And I just remember thinking– is this good enough? Am I listening to them every single day– good enough? Because I can't make no notes in the car. And then I can buy the book that matched them, and then I get my highlighter pen and highlight all of them in the book, so I can read. Then I'd rewrite the note– I mean, it was intense.

00:19:37 Aleksandra King: That is intense.

00:19:38 Michael Howard: And I thought that I was hopeless, though– that's the difference. I didn't think I was really clever doing it. I was always brought up thinking I was absolutely useless and hopeless, for my whole life. I hadn't really realised that I was good at anything– probably late 40s, early 50s.

00:20:03 Aleksandra King: Okay– that's– recently, recently.

00:20:06 Michael Howard: Mhm.

00:20:07 Aleksandra King: Because I would have thought that if you always thought you weren't good enough, then you kind of become not good enough. But actually, you didn't think you were good enough, and then there was a transformation– so you can shift that.

00:20:18 Michael Howard: I can't remember my mother or my father– they were nice people, by the way, they weren't terrible, and then I ran them up– I can't remember them ever saying, oh my god, Michael, that's fantastic. Oh, wow, you are so–

00:20:35 Aleksandra King: Modern-day parenting.

00:20:36 Michael Howard: Never happened. Ever– ever.

00:20:38 Aleksandra King: Wow.

00:20:39 Michael Howard: And I remember my daughter Agatha bringing me this scribble, you know, when she was like three, and I remember going, oh my god, Agatha, I just love that– the use of colour– how did you figure that out? Shall we frame it? And I framed it and put it on the wall. I always wanted to make sure that I concentrated– and still do– on my children. I'm looking for everything good they do, I'm looking for everything that's positive, everything that I can encourage them to do, because I never had that. And I want them to grow up with confidence, knowing that they're good. And I think they do have that in abundance.

00:21:17 Aleksandra King: However it looks– and I apologise for interjecting– it looks like it worked in your favour.

00:21:21 Michael Howard: It did. Well, it– again–

00:21:23 Aleksandra King: Because maybe they shouldn't be told they're so wonderful all the time, right?

00:21:26 Michael Howard: That's the– that's the difficulty, isn't it? Because on one level, you want to give all your kids, you know, what you never had. But what my disadvantage growing up ends up being my advantage, because I'm highly motivated not to be back on the estate, in the house with–

00:21:45 Aleksandra King: Understood.

00:21:46 Michael Howard: With the stool by the fridge door, and the curtains– I mean, the curtains go down as well– we never had curtains, ever, in my life, in that house– for, gosh, for 10 years. Okay, so– but my kids will have to find a different form of motivation. There's not going to be away from pain, because there isn't any. They will have– it's going to be more difficult for them– even though they've had a great childhood and a good upbringing, and gone to nice schools and all of that, they're going to have to figure out and be really ambitious. Harder than– theirs will be harder than mine. It will be harder. It just will be. You think it wouldn't, but it will be. It absolutely will be.

00:22:27 Aleksandra King: Let's talk about the mindset shift, then. You thought– I'm not adequate, I'm not good, I'm not good, I'm not good, Michael, you're not good, you're hopeless– all these things– you're talking to yourself very negatively. And then something happens. What is that?

00:22:39 Michael Howard: Well, I'll tell you what– there– it was a moment, okay. I got invited to a seminar–

00:22:45 Aleksandra King: Mhm.

00:22:46 Michael Howard: In the US. And there was a very limited amount of people. There was an amazing array of incredible speakers from around the world, and I really wanted to go. So I rung, and they said, well, yeah, we'll put your name on the list. And I'm– have the credit card ready. And I said, why? He said, well, there's a lot of people that want to come, and there's only so many spaces, and we only want people to come who are hugely successful, and who are going to really benefit from it, who are then going to help us promote all the future seminars.

00:23:18 Aleksandra King: Oh, okay– pain.

00:23:22 Michael Howard: So, yeah– so I was like, okay, well, I'm probably not going to be going to this, because I'm not very good. Then there was emails and dialogue, and eventually they said, yeah, fine, you're in. Now, I'm sure it was a nice piece of clever marketing, but either way, I was like, fine. Obviously, when I get there, this is like the top entrepreneurs from around the world going to see these amazing speakers, and I'm going to be like the worst guy in the room. So anyway, I go into the room, and there's a load of people, and there's these great speakers, and it starts off with– who is here in the room that is just starting out as a one-man band, that's hugely ambitious– and we– put your hands up. So I look around– I go, oh, that's like a third of the room. Okay. I look around, and they said, right, well, who here has got their business to turn over, you know, a million dollars? And I look around– it's another– and it goes on. And then it's– who's got a business that's turning over over, you know, 20 million? Stand up. And it was me. And then the room applauds, and I'm like– oh, I'm the guy running the biggest business here. I– I was so–

00:24:50 Aleksandra King: This is at 50?

00:24:51 Michael Howard: Yeah– 50-ish. Maybe– it could be 48, 50.

00:24:54 Aleksandra King: But then– about 10 years– about– long ago?

00:24:56 Michael Howard: Yeah. And I'm– wow. And then what happened was– it went on for like three days– wherever I went– I'm queuing up to get my Starbucks– a queue of people, and now– want– here's my card, can we connect, blah blah blah. And that was like– okay, so maybe I'm doing all right.

00:25:18 Aleksandra King: You landed.

00:25:19 Michael Howard: Yeah– I got it then. Not– look, I'm running a small medium-sized business. There are many people running businesses way, way, way more successful than me. But at that point, I realised I wasn't completely useless. I didn't, by the way, believe I'm massively successful– and I still don't– but if I did, it would be tragic. I'm motivated to be the best I can be, running the best company that it can be. That's my motivation. The moment you think you've landed and arrived, or you're great– it's the end. So I'm as motivated today, at being, you know, whatever successful is, and to make the business successful, as I was 5 years, 10 years, 15, 20 years ago. There's no change.

00:26:05 Aleksandra King: Do you know what I love about what you're saying? I just love the values that go into it. I love that you don't take– you don't– you're not bigging yourself up. You're not like, I'm so wonderful, that I'm so rich, and I'm this– it doesn't ever go into your brain. What does is this genuine will to really work hard and do the absolute best that you could possibly ever do.

00:26:29 Michael Howard: And know where I've come from.

00:26:30 Aleksandra King: That's why– that's why you're doing well, you know, in your business. That's why your clients come to you. I bet you– you've installed that all in the company culture, and all your employees– I bet that they understand that.

00:26:41 Michael Howard: We have just such a fantastic team of brilliant people– I mean, brilliant people. It's not like I'm managing them day-to-day, because I'm not– they're managing themselves and getting on with it. But I know where I've come from. And– or be– you have to just define what success is. Success isn't just about money– that's one element. I think it's who you are as a person, how you take care of other people, what your character is. That's more important than money. Money's a mechanism– it's a tool to get you– so you don't have to get on the bus. How you spend your time is important– your time is your most valuable commodity. You know, the older you get– suddenly realising you're nearly 60– you think, you know, it's not like there's 50 years left. It's not like a reset button. It is– you know– so you have– so you get– suddenly, as you get older, you get a lot more fussy about what you're doing, and what are you doing that brings you the most joy and the most pleasure. It isn't just having lots of money, or buying another watch, or something.

00:27:42 Aleksandra King: I've started to look at the days in– well, I'm from a consulting background, so I always used to look at my time that I gave a client as per hour, and what value. And I always thought– or sometimes I would look at employees who are full-time, and I'd think, well, what have you done in 8 hours? Like, how do you– let– you've been on Facebook, and what have you– chatting to– you having a coffee– and I'm looking at the time, going– because you have to show value. And then I've tried to now transfer that into my life outside of work– and now I'm running a business– but you think, well, what have I done with these hours? Where have I invested into the client? Where have I invested into my own business? When you start, there is no– there's not enough time. You kind of thinking, well, it just flies.

00:28:23 Michael Howard: It flies.

00:28:24 Aleksandra King: And then you want to do all these other things. But what does managing a business look like, for you?

00:28:33 Michael Howard: Every business has to have a plan that works. I see so many businesses that are just not really thought through. People have got to do your basic maths on a business. If a restaurant has got 100 seats, and it can do breakfast, one lunch, and two rounds of dinners, and it's full all the time– does it make a really good profit? Well, we all know it can't be full all the time. But I know businesses that even at their maximum potential can never make any money– it just doesn't work. So many businesses start up and fail really quickly. I mean, the statistics– 50 fail in the first year; by year 10, you've got like a 4 to 5 survival–

00:29:25 Aleksandra King: Can I just– so is it more the basic maths– you know, profit– your business is not designed to make profit– or is it– what is it that makes them fail?

00:29:34 Michael Howard: I can give lots of examples. If you have a shop– how many people need to come in every day to look? How many people need to buy? And what is the average value of what they buy? And if it was the best, do you make a profit? And no one's really sitting down figuring out, because I think a lot of businesses don't want to know that, because it's scary– it's frightening. Most businesses make no money, or fail. You've got to have a really good but simple plan, which is a mathematical plan. And you've got to look at your best case, you've got to look at your worst case, and then, in the middle, your most likely case. And you plan really everything on what is most likely. But if the worst case is, like, no one comes into your shop or your restaurant– can you survive? Can you– what– what is the worst– is the worst case survivable, or not?

00:30:34 Aleksandra King: Okay– can I– can I look at it from a different angle?

00:30:36 Michael Howard: Yeah.

00:30:37 Aleksandra King: What if you just– but you– you are more passion-driven, values-driven, and you think– this thing, I want to offer it to the world. I don't have a financial plan.

00:30:48 Michael Howard: Mhm.

00:30:48 Aleksandra King: What about that case?

00:30:50 Michael Howard: Yeah– you know– no. But lots of passion doesn't make a business. It's great to have it, but no– it's just– it's not enough. No– you've got to have a plan. You've got to have a plan that says, I've got to sell X many–

00:31:05 Aleksandra King: Yes.

00:31:05 Michael Howard: You know, doughnuts, or X many of these.

00:31:07 Aleksandra King: In reality– yeah, it does. There's also the philosophy that if you get too involved in these numbers– okay, I'm playing devil's advocate here– obviously, I know you know way more– but let's just say that if you get too involved in the numbers, you're too prescriptive, and you have the best advice is going on– that's not– you're not going to– then that can kill this other thing, which is– well, let's be innovators, let's break– this has never been done before, so how can we possibly know that we– you know what I'm– what I'm getting at with this.

00:31:38 Michael Howard: [The numbers] are like your bedrock, right? So if in a restaurant– let's just give that as an example– you need a minimum of 50 people for breakfast, your job then is to figure out– how am I going to get those people? Because you have to know what you're aiming for. If 50 is a small profit or a break-even, and 70 people is really good, and 30 people is a disaster– the passion is– how am I going to get those people in? What am I going to do? What am I going to do– marketing? How am I going to have– where's my position of my– you've got to figure all of those things out. And then, when people come in, if their average spend– expenditure– is, you know, 50 quid a head– how can I make that 60? What else can I upsell? Make sure people have dessert, or whatever you're going to do at a restaurant. But you can't do that blind. You have to know what you're aiming for.

00:32:35 Aleksandra King: Focus.

00:32:36 Michael Howard: Yeah. And that's where the passion comes in– but you know what you've got to do. I've got to get 50 people in– I'm going to put an advert in the paper, I'm putting leaflets around, I'm in the street– whatever I'm going to do to get people through the door of my hairdresser's, my shop, my anything.

00:32:55 Aleksandra King: Okay, so can I ask you– like, I work with lots of different companies, different businesses, different types of industries– ones that are more technical, ones that are more, you know, education– you name it. Not everyone is on the same page as far as marketing. How important is marketing to a business?

00:33:15 Michael Howard: How can you be in business without it? But you have to know what you're doing. You've got to have a business plan. A business plan is not, you know, a hundred-page document– that all sounds fan[cy]– a business plan is– we– this is what we do as a business, this is how many customers, clients we need, this is how much revenue we need to have, this is the profitability that we get on a sale of a, you know, dinner, a barber, a pair of jeans– whatever you're doing. You have to know all of that, and then you've got to figure out– okay, I now know what I need to make it work. How am I going to– and you have to have marketing, and you have to have sales, and you have to have, yeah, PR, or whatever that particular business needs. And you have to have those people that come to your shop, or your restaurant, or whatever it is, come back again. You have to be good.

00:34:09 Aleksandra King: So you really, at the core, as a CEO– you believe in marketing, and you invest in marketing.

00:34:18 Michael Howard: You have to. There's absolutely no choice. But there's levels of marketing.

00:34:22 Aleksandra King: Yeah– you say that, but I– you know, I work with some of the biggest companies, and they have marketing teams, and the marketing teams execute the marketing plan, and the marketing plan has been the marketing plan for a long time. And they've heard about some sort of SEO, so they get whoever to do it– they don't particularly understand it, or what it's actually doing, or how it fits into– god forbid, AI and all that– don't even try. There's things that are executed– we need to do a trade show, we need to get the pamphlet out. It's very mechanical– almost robotic– execution of marketing.

00:34:52 Michael Howard: Goes back to the numbers–

00:34:53 Aleksandra King: Which is needed, but–

00:34:54 Michael Howard: Yeah, but it goes back to the numbers, isn't it? If I have a trade show, and I'm going to spend 50,000 pounds, I'm going to have five people there, I'm going to have a stand– what am I– what is my objective? Am I after names? Am I selling there? Am I making appointments? So every single bit has got to be figured out. And what I see a lot of companies doing is they're ticking all those marketing boxes, and they're not measuring the result. They haven't figured it all through.

00:35:21 Aleksandra King: Totally– they haven't.

00:35:23 Michael Howard: They haven't– marketing is sitting there, and they haven't integrated into– because what is marketing? It's bringing to market, so that we can sell. And it's the sales guys, and the marketing guys, and– core of the value of the business– that you need to knit. All businesses– all businesses need a funnel– a sales funnel, or a marketing funnel of some sort– where people can– if you have a shop, there's people that are kind of– you've got to get them in the shop to look around, so that's the marketing piece. When they're in– that marketing has achieved its goal if they're in the shop. Once they're in the shop, sales takes over. I've got to try and figure out how to sell someone something. And if you go into a shop and someone says, can I help you– you say, I'm just looking. So you need to figure out– if I keep saying, every morning and every day, can I help you, and 95 of people say, I'm just looking, and then leave– I need to do something better. And I've got to measure everything. If I was running a shop, I'd be– I'm going to have to work out what's better than, you know, can I help you.

00:36:28 Aleksandra King: Gosh, I really love–

00:36:29 Michael Howard: Are you looking for casual clothes today, or formal, sir? Maybe that would be better.

00:36:34 Aleksandra King: I love the way you've stripped it. There's absolutely no nonsense fluff, and you go back to the metrics, and you go back to measuring, and you go back to the value. And there's no fluff around anything.

00:36:44 Michael Howard: If I had a shop and someone came in, I want to sell them something. And what would happen if they wanted a pair of jeans and I didn't have their size? I'm going to lose a sale. So I have to figure that out. Am I getting– on my site– do I– if they come in and want to buy, and I don't have it–

00:37:06 Aleksandra King: That's a failure somewhere else down the line, isn't it? That's a supply–

00:37:10 Michael Howard: Of course. So I have to figure that out. I need to measure that. How many people came in for a pair of jeans that would have bought one if I had a 34 waist? How many of those do I lose? I need to know that, so I can go back and figure that out, so it doesn't happen again. If I don't have it, what am I going to do? Can I get it tomorrow? Would I send it to their house? I want to figure out every single possibility to make sure I sell as much to every single person that comes in.

00:37:38 Aleksandra King: This is you as a young– younger kid, reading through everything, listening to those cassette tapes, highlighting everything– make sure you're not missing anything. It's exactly the same, right? It's intense.

00:37:46 Michael Howard: It's really intense. You have to be intense to be successful. And, you know, in the shop example– I've now sold someone a pair of jeans, and I don't know who they are, because I'm in a shop. Can I get their mobile? Can I get their email address? How can I get them back in? Can I give them a voucher for 10 off next time? How can I secure them, and make them feel special, as opposed to just transactional? If you go into any– I thought chain– they always want your email address, and they're just going to bombard you with meaningless stuff– spam. People need to have a– yeah– you want to have a relationship with your– with a customer, with a client, if you can. If you're going to a hairdresser– like– well, women are the best example. Most women tend to have a hairdresser that they know and they trust, who know how to cut and dye their hair, and you wouldn't go to anyone– men are different. You know, men just go anywhere. But if you're running a hairdresser's for men, you want to have a relationship with those people, so they come back. What can you do? How can you figure it out? And you go through– you go past hairdressers– I mean, just walking down here, there's like five outside here. They've all got one thing in common– they're empty. So is it worth opening at 9:00 in the morning if it's empty? Pointless, if you can't get people in. And they've– one I counted– they've got 10 chairs– you know, a chair and a mirror– empty. Can they fill 10 chairs and a mirror? Well, if they've only got two barbers– pointless. You could have figured out–

00:39:21 Aleksandra King: That's– that's– you're so strict, the way that you dissect a business.

00:39:23 Michael Howard: And that's– but that's the numbers, isn't it? Because if I've got 10 chairs and 10 mirrors, I want 10 barbers, and I want 10 people there all the time. A men's haircut is like–

00:39:33 Aleksandra King: Can I just say– you're like one of those– you're like one of those Apprentice bosses, that you always have your hand in business and go, no, no– get out. Yeah. I'm actually scared talking to you now.

00:39:46 Michael Howard: But– but that's the level, I think, that you really have to think about. Because if you're running a business, your job is to understand every single thing about that business– what doesn't work, what does work, and all of those numbers. So your job, if you're running any business, is to figure every bit of it out. And the experience for the client, for the customer, has got to be great. It's got to be different than the shop next door. Lots of challenges, and that's why businesses have failed– because there's so much in it.

00:40:20 Aleksandra King: 95 after 10 years– of shop, yeah. Can I ask you then– well, I think this is considered– this my favourite part of any business– but just pure selling. What's your approach? How do you do it?

00:40:31 Michael Howard: Everything is not about you. It's all about the customer– the client. And you've got to find the problem– you've got to find what is their issue, and your job is to solve it. Not just to sell them anything. You need to build up a trust, so people will take your– yeah– they know your advice is true. I actually went into a shop that I know, recently, and I put a jacket on, and I went– what do you think? And he went– honestly, it's not for you. Wrong colour. I thought– I love this shop. I bought nothing, but I go back, because I trust them, and I like that. I think giving honest advice and being straight with people, long-term, will always pay off. You may suffer short-term– yeah– he could have sold me a jacket, and I would have gone home– someone would have thought, a yellow jacket, you must be nuts. So I think you have to think about clients and customers more, you know, medium, long-term, than instant gratification. Better to take care of people and do the right thing by them, than just trying to sell stuff.

00:41:35 Aleksandra King: Definitely do the right thing, for the right reason. I mean, there's so many crooks about, and scams, and things like that, and that doesn't have longevity. And unless you want to be in a business of crime, I suppose– I would call it– then crack on– but this is not that. Okay, so we've spoken about marketing and sales– let's talk about people. And I don't want to go into the fluffy stuff. I want to go into– what don't you like– I mean, besides dishonesty, I guess– in a person working with you?

00:42:04 Michael Howard: A person– well, you don't want– and you don't want people to suck up to the boss, and you want people to be straight. You know, if something is– if something goes wrong, you don't want cover-up.

00:42:19 Aleksandra King: Yeah. Okay– the opposite of that.

00:42:22 Michael Howard: Because you have to learn– every– a lot of people get fired in companies for making mistakes. I mean, that's insane. That's ridiculous. Why would you do that? Because we are all constantly making mistakes– it is just a life thing. We're making mistakes with children, we make mistakes in our house, in our business, all the time. The real key is– can you put your hands up and say, yeah, I completely got that wrong– and then you have a learning from it, and next time you do it differently. So what I'm always looking for– that– yeah– if people say, look, I– I messed this up. I mean, someone came into my office not that long ago and messed up to the tune of a couple of million pounds.

00:43:07 Aleksandra King: That's a lot of money.

00:43:10 Michael Howard: And you go– yeah– ooh– yeah. He didn't get fired. It was a mistake.

00:43:20 Aleksandra King: It was a big mistake.

00:43:21 Michael Howard: We won't make that mistake again– because then the mistake's really my mistake, for not having systems and stuff in place to avoid that. So then you have to put a whole bunch of stuff in– you've learned from that. You're looking for people that are open about a mistake– they're not frightened of saying it, because the culture is not haha. And you're looking for people that have got a good work ethic, that are nice people. If in my business I'm hiring people that I like, I respect, that will fit in, that are decent, nice people, and can do the job– but not the other way around. I'm not looking at who can do the job first, and then say, well, I don't really like them, and they won't really fit, and they're going to be– low– trouble for you. Fit– nice, decent, great people that fit– is– I'd rather have– I'd rather sacrifice some skill for that. Skill is trainable. A personality, a– a work ethic, a decent– is untrainable.

00:44:21 Aleksandra King: Gosh– that's– you're just giving me so much food for thought.

00:44:25 Michael Howard: Yeah– it's untrainable. You can't get– you can get really great people that you know are passionate about what they do, that will work hard, that will enjoy it, that will have fun doing it, that will wake up in the morning and want to be there. And if they are slightly less skilled than the person that doesn't really want to be there, or only wants the money– I wouldn't have to spend more than a couple of seconds thinking about who to hire.

00:44:53 Aleksandra King: When we talk about making mistakes and things– I've also seen things in large organisations, where they have this management structure– top, middle, so and so– where sometimes an employee might get fired because their line manager, whoever, is so– pinning the blame on them, because it's– these things happen a lot, you know, these things– big, big–

00:45:15 Michael Howard: Big company's very difficult to run. You– you can't just be– there has to be a relationship between, you know, the bosses, you know, and the managers, and the people. A proper relationship– not a– it's got to be something where people feel that they belong in– in your business, and they want to belong.

00:45:32 Aleksandra King: Yeah– they want to belong.

00:45:32 Michael Howard: And they feel part of it, and they're not going to be sold– you can't always achieve it– it's difficult to achieve– but that's– that should be the goal, I think.

00:45:40 Aleksandra King: I think you're right. Who you hire– the character– and I mean, it– it starts with that, doesn't it? It starts with the work ethic and the character. Okay– let's talk about something that has gone terribly wrong– besides the thing you just said– yeah– something– a mistake that you personally made, besides that one.

00:45:56 Michael Howard: All of the mistakes– mistake– all of the mistakes are down to me, because ultimately I sign everything off. I made a huge mistake– I can't give you any of the detail– I made a huge mistake where someone came in and spoke to me about a problem, and I made a decision based on what he told me. And what I should have done is said– okay, we won't make a decision now.

00:46:22 Aleksandra King: Mhm.

00:46:23 Michael Howard: Come back here, and let's get all the paperwork out, let's go through it and really think it through. And I was flippant– I went, well, just tell him no. And that– that was a problem. Oh, but I've made hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of mistakes. I'm not bad at– I don't always learn from every one– sometimes you have to do it a second time. But my goal is to be the best I can possibly be at everything I do. It is slightly unachievable– you know, you can't– you can't be brilliant at everything, you just can't be– but– but it's my intent.

00:46:59 Aleksandra King: Yes.

00:47:00 Michael Howard: And, yeah, I have to take responsibility for the failures, for the things that we get wrong, as well as the stuff that we get right.

00:47:09 Aleksandra King: I– I just love the attitude– attitude. Because– even– it doesn't matter whether you're working at McDonald's, whether you're sweeping a floor, whether you're washing windows, whether you're doing the gardening, whether you– you're the prime minister of a country– you should definitely be doing the best job you possibly can, and caring.

00:47:27 Michael Howard: Absolutely. One of my sons has just finished his A-levels– he's going to go on a gap year–

00:47:33 Aleksandra King: Nice.

00:47:34 Michael Howard: And he's going to be a site labourer on one of our sites. It's a hard job– you know, you're cleaning the toilets, you're clearing up the rubbish– it's, yeah, hard– hard work. And he is going to be doing that for the next 4 months. And I said– you have to be the best one there. That's your goal– so everyone says, oh my god, he's amazing. You've got to be there– you know, if you start at 7:30, you're there at 7:15. If you finish at 4:00, you leave at 4:30, or whatever. But everything that I've done, and do– I'm trying to be the best I can possibly be, and trying to make the company the best it can be, on every single level. If a client comes into the office, I'm thinking– how do they feel when they walk through the door? Are we nice? Or are we– can I help you, sir? Are we nice? Are we genuine? Are we good people? Do we– do they feel looked after? Do we take genuine care– not ticking the boxes? When we do a presentation to win an instruction– is it a– do they get– oh my god, that was incredible?

00:48:43 Aleksandra King: When I spoke to Mark Wright– well, the first time I sent him an email, he just replied, pretty much within 24 hours. He's– he's always like this. And then I brought it up in the podcast– I was like, why are you– why are you so responsive? You know, you're a busy guy, whatever. But he's saying what you're saying– it's a brand touch point. He doesn't want anyone who's interacting with his brand, with him, with anything that he represents, to have a bad experience– and that includes replying to an email.

00:49:10 Michael Howard: I– I just think– it's, you know– if you– if you go into that– there's a huge difference, I think, if you go into, say, a Pret shop, than it is if you go into Costa Coffee. And I'm not criticising Costa Coffee. There's something about the culture at a business like Pret, which is all about culture– how they treat people. Everything in their business is focused on the customer. The customer is king. It is not just– although it's transactional, there's something special. I went into a Pret recently, and the lady there was grumpy.

00:49:49 Aleksandra King: Mhm.

00:49:49 Michael Howard: I had a black Americano– I want to drink it straight away, so I asked for some ice to put in it, and she went– oh, no– like, oh, no. I got the– and I was slightly sarcastic. I said– I said, have a great day, and I left. The next day, I went in, and she was there, and she said– I remember you from yesterday. So I said– right. And she said– I'm really sorry– oh, I was having one of those days. And I went– don't worry, we all have one of those days. Sorry to– and then she says– coffee's on me. And they have that flexibility– like, she doesn't have to go to a manager.

00:50:28 Aleksandra King: That's clever.

00:50:30 Michael Howard: Because it's all about the customer. And isn't business all about making sure our customers love us, and they're impressed?

00:50:37 Aleksandra King: Yes– definitely.

00:50:38 Michael Howard: And we put them centre stage. We've got nothing to– we need to get out of the way, and put the customer first. And I know for a fact that is what companies like Pret– there's many companies– I'm just giving that as an example–

00:50:48 Aleksandra King: You have to go to Pret and have a– well, let's flip that. Talk about– what if a client's really bad? Have you had to let clients go? Have you ever had that experience?

00:50:58 Michael Howard: Absolutely, yeah.

00:50:59 Aleksandra King: Why? Is it money?

00:51:01 Michael Howard: It's normally money. If you don't know what it's about– they don't want to pay, they don't want to– what is it you can't do– it's a great phrase– I think Warren Buffett said it, actually– you can't do a good deal with a bad person.

00:51:14 Aleksandra King: Oh.

00:51:16 Michael Howard: It's not possible. So, yeah– if we think anyone is going to be a nightmare, we walk away. And I've walked away from tens and tens and tens of millions of pounds with that, and I don't regret any of it. We want to work with people that are going to pay, people that are enjoyable to work with– decent people. And we do– our clients are fantastic. And we have made the mistake, obviously, in the past, of doing a project with a customer who didn't want to pay, who was– and we think– we– it's better not to have it.

00:51:49 Aleksandra King: It's a difficult one to walk away from– a client that's got the money and wants the–

00:51:53 Michael Howard: But– yeah– it is, and it isn't. Especially when you're starting off– if you're greedy– you know, you don't want to be greedy, because greed doesn't work, because you're just so focused on the wrong thing. Ultimately, you have to take care of your business, and if you think that client is going to be a huge disruptor to your business– I'm not going to get paid, or they're going to be– then walk– walk away. Let them find someone else.

00:52:15 Aleksandra King: And how do you deal with your– because work– business– as we said, it is difficult, it's stressful. I mean, I grew up in an entrepreneurial family– my dad ran a business for so many years, and I've watched– like, experienced as a kid– the seesaw of–

00:52:31 Michael Howard: Yeah, it is. It's– it's like that.

00:52:33 Aleksandra King: So how do you manage stress, basically? Let's just– let's essentialise it to what we all want to know. Because stress is huge, and if you're going to do anything big, you're going to have big stresses.

00:52:47 Michael Howard: Yeah. It's difficult. It's so difficult. I don't have an easy one–

00:52:54 Aleksandra King: You used to it?

00:52:56 Michael Howard: Say again?

00:52:56 Aleksandra King: Do you get used to it, or never?

00:53:00 Michael Howard: You get– you– you get more used to dealing with it, and managing it. Now, I– I don't drink– so I haven't had a drink for 18 years.

00:53:12 Aleksandra King: Good– good, good.

00:53:13 Michael Howard: And I think that's a really good way out– temporary good way out. You go home, have two glasses of wine, and you'll feel better. But actually, that doesn't make you strong. What makes you resilient is having nothing– just– you have to– you have to sit with the stress–

00:53:30 Aleksandra King: Oh– which is tough. Sweat it out at night, yeah.

00:53:33 Michael Howard: So, no– I've got no real tips for stress. It's just a fact. But you– you do get used to it. But it is a fact– look, it's a fact of life, whether you run a business or not. I mean, there's plenty of people that just are employees, who do a job, and that's very stressful, because they've got no power, no control. At least if you're running a business, you've got a bit of control, and– and maybe some power. Stress is stress– people feel it for different reasons.

00:53:56 Aleksandra King: Do you have someone that you– do you– I mean, you obviously love the self-help books, but do you have anyone you can call and go– because it's a lonely place, running a business of your size.

00:54:04 Michael Howard: Yeah– I mean, I'm very lucky. I have a great– I have a great partner.

00:54:07 Aleksandra King: Yeah, yeah.

00:54:10 Michael Howard: She's fantastic, and she lets me get on and do what I have to do. I think that's really important– to have someone who really understands you, and understands the stresses of the business. Yeah– I mean, sometimes you just have to deal with it and get on with it, you know.

00:54:25 Aleksandra King: I've got one more question that I want to ask, and I've got three quick-fire questions from the public. So I'm going to ask– if you lost everything–

00:54:33 Michael Howard: Mhm.

00:54:33 Aleksandra King: Today–

00:54:34 Michael Howard: Mhm.

00:54:34 Aleksandra King: What would you do?

00:54:37 Michael Howard: Well, I'd have to get the bus, wouldn't I?

00:54:39 Aleksandra King: You'd have to get the bus– or walk.

00:54:41 Michael Howard: Get a bus ticket. Well, I'd just do something again. I mean, I would– I would be highly motivated– which– I'm motivated not to be broke, basically.

00:54:51 Aleksandra King: You'd build the next–

00:54:52 Michael Howard: I would go and do something else, yeah. I would–

00:54:55 Aleksandra King: You've got it all.

00:54:56 Michael Howard: But it– it's not to have an empire– that's not the goal. The goal is not to be broke. The goal is not to be broke.

00:55:01 Aleksandra King: Okay– so, question for you.

00:55:03 Michael Howard: Yes.

00:55:03 Aleksandra King: Okay, let's go– from the public. What problem am I truly solving, and how do I know it's a real pain point?

00:55:12 Michael Howard: You have to have an instinct on what is a real– a real problem. I mean, there's a challenge, and there's a problem– they're different. Every business has got challenge. The problem is– we've got no money, and we can't make payroll– I mean, that is a problem. Your job, if you're running a business, is to understand the business inside out, back to front. The– every business is constantly challenged, all the time. You're challenged to survive, you're challenged to be successful, you're challenged to market. Business is changing today, more than ever in the history of businesses. We have more technology, we have all of this stuff happening, and if you don't keep up with it, you're just dead in the water. Look at the high street– do you want to open a shop today? If you're going to open a shop in the high street, you've got to be– you've got to do something really good. In the old days, you would open a shop, and you would turn the thing around that says open or closed, and people would come, because everyone went to the high street to buy everything. No one's doing that anymore. If you listen and read to lots of stuff that's being put out there about– you can just work 3 hours a day from Dubai, on a laptop, and you'll drive a Lamborghini, and you'll spend most of your time on the beach, messaging– I– I'm sure that has happened, but that's a little bit like saying, I want to know what Jeff Bezos does. There's no point– Jeff Bezos is running the biggest company in the universe. He's the worst example for normal people, because he's so rare.

00:56:45 Aleksandra King: Yeah. The best example of people a little bit more–

00:56:48 Michael Howard: Yeah– I– no one should have– Elon– he's a genius. We– if we– if we copy Elon– made lying [in] bed all day, dreaming– that wouldn't be a good example. Yeah– we– we would want to copy Elon when he was 19 or 20, and the same with– with Jeff Bezos. That's the bit that we should be copying. What was it like when they had nothing? Yeah– what was the work? Not today– it's different.

00:57:15 Aleksandra King: I also bring on some people that are starting off, that I can feel there's something there– you know, potential, a mindset, a hunger, a good plan, an ambition of some kind– that– and– and the way they speak, you can kind of feel it, and you think– yeah, actually, I want to hear from you. I think you've got some good stuff. They've not done anything big yet– they've done some things– more than– the show themselves to– but I like bringing them on, too, to see what– what they're doing. Right– next question. What's my unique selling proposition? How am I different? Why will customers choose me?

00:57:51 Michael Howard: Well, if you're the same as– look– if you're the same as everyone else, you're going to get the same as everyone else. So you have to be different– not for different sake, but you have to be different. So whatever you do– if I– if I walk into any of the barber shops down this street, the chances are they're all going to be about the same, and they're all basically empty right now, and most of the guys in the shop are on their– on their phones, just sitting there. They all copied each other, right? They're all the same. But am I attracted to go in? If someone is on their phone, I'm not welcomed. So if I was running a barber shop down this street, I would want it to look different– they all look the same. I want the people to be different– I would want everything to be different, and welcoming. And I just want to spend loads of time figuring out– and then, do you know what I do? I go and figure out what the most successful chain of hairdressers is– Toni & Guy. What do they do? What– what do they do that's special? I– I would go and look at that. I would always want to look at– what are the very best of the best doing? That's a good start. And that can be in the same business, or a different business. You know, if you go into a hotel, and you walk into the check-in, and someone goes– yep– that's very different than someone meeting you at the door, and they know you're coming, and saying– welcome back, it's lovely to have– how do people feel– how you make people feel, I think, is so important, in every business.

00:59:26 Aleksandra King: Gosh, I hope people are listening. Well, they won't be yet, because I haven't posted– but when I post– anyone who's not listening to this, I feel bad for them, because it's so good.

00:59:35 Michael Howard: Yeah– of a business's world is its clients and customers.

00:59:40 Aleksandra King: Last question– related to that one– because, yes, that's lovely, but you need the money. So– how will I fund my startup? What's realistic in the early days?

00:59:52 Michael Howard: The issue with this is that there's so many ways now of funding. There are lots of young people that– they end up being better at raising the money than they do at running the business. The goal is– is to raise the absolute minimum amount of money, and the goal is to make your company work, and make a profit. I'm an investor in a few businesses– I don't really enjoy being an investor– and they've all got the same thing in common– they don't make any money. Their focus always is raising more money, and they're brilliant at raising money. But the– the goal would be– you have the minimum, and you raise no more. You make it– you've got to make it work. If you've raised 100,000, work out when that runs out. Your overheads minimal– every penny counts– you– of expenditure. I've got– I've borrowed 100,000, or I've had it invested– I've now got to make sure that gives me 6 months. In 6 months' time, I've got to be generating income– cash. You– the focus is making your business work, not continually raising– up like– right, when they run out– it's– we'd be out in three, let's raise more. No– that– that isn't the goal. The goal is– I have to make a profit. That should be my focus. If you can make the business make a profit, you may want– want to raise more money, to expand, to do other things– that's different. And to make money, you've got to be really good, and know your numbers, know your metrics, know the cost of your [unclear: class?]– yeah– there's a huge list of things that you have to do. But its goal is to be profitable. It has to make money– it's the purpose of a business. I could give a million examples– if you bought an umbrella, it's to keep the rain off you. If all the rain came through, it doesn't matter how good it looks. If I go to hospital– if they're all nice, and I get coffee, and I get treated quickly– if they don't repair my broken wrist, it's no good. Their goal is to fix me. The umbrella is to keep the rain off. The goal of a business is to make money. And that's not selfish, or ruthless– you make money by being lovely to clients, treat all your employees, your team, brilliantly– do all, you know, this myriad of things. But if you do everything brilliantly and you can't make money, it's not a good business.

01:02:26 Aleksandra King: Michael, in my opinion, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for the education– business 101. Thank you so much.

01:02:34 Michael Howard: Pleasure.