What War Taught Me About Business | Mark Moseley

Cold open

00:00:00 Aleksandra King: This is an interesting one. I interview Mark Moseley, who is a former soldier. He's now the owner of a pest control company, obviously ex-BBC Apprentice candidate. This guy has done some wild stuff. We covered The Apprentice, but I mean, as his time as a soldier– he's had tea with the Taliban, okay? He's almost been killed numerous times. So this was a really interesting interview and you're definitely going to want to tune in.

Interview

00:00:33 Aleksandra King: Hi Mark.

00:00:34 Mark Moseley: Hello Aleksandra.

00:00:35 Aleksandra King: You ready for this podcast?

00:00:37 Mark Moseley: I'm ready for this podcast.

00:00:38 Aleksandra King: Scared?

00:00:38 Mark Moseley: A little bit scared, but no, I'm never scared. But it'll be fine.

00:00:42 Aleksandra King: I'm joking. No, you're– you're a former soldier, you're not going to be scared of this, I hope. This– this is nothing for you.

00:00:47 Mark Moseley: No, we will– we'll see. Words can hurt sometimes.

00:00:50 Aleksandra King: And a security specialist.

00:00:52 Mark Moseley: Yeah, so I spent a bit of time in security, yeah.

00:00:54 Aleksandra King: And an entrepreneur.

00:00:56 Mark Moseley: Yeah.

00:00:56 Aleksandra King: And an ex-BBC candidate.

00:00:58 Mark Moseley: Correct.

00:00:59 Aleksandra King: There's no way you [unclear: skip] of this podcast.

00:01:00 Mark Moseley: No, it'll be all right.

00:01:02 Aleksandra King: Although, what are you thinking, being interviewed by another crazy ex-BBC Apprentice?

00:01:08 Mark Moseley: Yeah, it's nice to actually see the different side of the stories, how everyone felt about the process. It was an experience. I feel like it's the new people's turn now, but it always plays in your memory sometimes– should I have done that, should I have done this, shouldn't I have done that? But it's one of these things– I think it's geared up for– I personally think so. I've done my research before going into The Apprentice, so– I'm a numbers man, I love numbers, so I looked at all the stats, and there was stats like Lord Sugar never invested in anyone over the age of 31 from the show, and at the time I was 39, and I was thinking, so– it's not looking good. Most of his last candidates had been girls around the age of 28.

00:01:44 Aleksandra King: The females seems to be the one.

00:01:46 Mark Moseley: Yeah, I think it was like– that last 34 candidates who made it to the interview stages, 29 were females and six were guys, and I was like, blimey, what is going on here? Is the girls that good at this process? And then I dug a little deeper and then I found Karren Brady, and I was like, ah, that might be the reason. But that was all– all good fun, and yeah, it was all– I loved the process in the end.

00:02:06 Aleksandra King: Interesting stuff. So you appeared in 2023, right? It was Series 17.

00:02:11 Mark Moseley: Yep.

00:02:12 Aleksandra King: So how many weeks did you last before you got [unclear: culled]?

00:02:15 Mark Moseley: Yes, before I got the dreaded finger. It was eight weeks on air, but about five and a half weeks in normal time. But 17 was my lucky number. I was born on the 17th of March, St Patrick's Day, right? When I found out it was Series 17, I thought, oh, I'm going to win this. And I got put in a hotel and it was room 17 at quarantining, and then when I walked into that waiting room I was the 17th candidate to walk in, because I was counting people– and you all stood there scared– and one more person, so I was like, 17th, Series 17.

00:02:43 Aleksandra King: It's suspicious, isn't it?

00:02:44 Mark Moseley: So I was– thought, I've won this already, everyone.

00:02:47 Aleksandra King: So just– maybe not won, but it was your destiny to be on Series 17, which you were.

00:02:52 Mark Moseley: Yeah.

00:02:52 Aleksandra King: But then eight wasn't your lucky number– [unclear]. So why were you fired?

00:02:56 Mark Moseley: I was fired because– the team just didn't sell enough tickets. We're going to a little–

00:03:02 Aleksandra King: So it was the team's fault, is it?

00:03:03 Mark Moseley: No, not at all. I would– [unclear: start accountability or–] yeah, I'll take all the accountability. It was a– yeah. We went into the brainstorm, as they call it, and everyone wants to try and make as much money as possible. So you've just gone to a– we'd just driven up to a little rural market town in [unclear: Shropshire] and we sat in this brainstorm– got £150 a ticket, £200 a ticket. And once we left that meeting, I'm sat there– I don't think I'd pay £150 to £200 to go and watch my favourite band play [unclear: Wembley] Stadium– I know [unclear: Oasis] are playing there now, maybe then– but I thought, this is ridiculous, we've got to drop the price down to about £90, £100, because people are just doing an impulse buy– to a prison. And yeah, and then that got brought up quite a lot in my firing– you're just chopping and changing, you're changing the prices– and I was going, we could have been selling tickets to the moon, no one's going to be paying 100, 150 for a ticket to a prison on a Saturday when it's their weekend.

00:03:53 Aleksandra King: So were you quite adamant and stuck to your guns? And did you listen to the feedback, or were you like–

00:03:59 Mark Moseley: Yeah, no, I don't mind listening to feedback, but yeah, once we'd left the brainstorm I realised– you know, you process what you've just spoke about, you think, this is not–

00:04:07 Aleksandra King: Puts a spotlight on you.

00:04:09 Mark Moseley: Yeah, it does. So if anything goes wrong, it'll be like, that's the disruptor, he needs to get fired.

00:04:14 Aleksandra King: Because they're like a bunch of animals, they go for you.

00:04:17 Mark Moseley: Oh yeah, everyone tries to save their own skin.

00:04:19 Aleksandra King: But– think– you'd never been project manager yourself at this– no?

00:04:22 Mark Moseley: Well, I'd never been project manager, so I told everyone in the brain– said, well, everyone just take a step back, because he's coming for me if I don't be project manager this time. Yes– yeah, it was all– I think they wanted me secretly to go in week six. There had been a few, you know, issues behind the scenes, if you like, and so I think they had it for me for week six. But thankfully for me, in Dubai people were going down with seasickness, someone else whacked their head on our team, so we lost half of our team and I thought–

00:04:47 Aleksandra King: Needed you.

00:04:48 Mark Moseley: Yes. The other team somehow magically had a 60% refund and we won the task, and we were like, nice– well done, well done.

00:04:56 Aleksandra King: Were your feelings hurt, though, when you got fired?

00:04:58 Mark Moseley: A little bit. [unclear: Ego damage.] I felt my heart going– you feel your heart going, it's going [unclear]– I thought, it's coming now.

00:05:04 Aleksandra King: The boardroom's scary.

00:05:05 Mark Moseley: Yeah, it's so cold as well.

00:05:06 Aleksandra King: I think it's all the air conditioning.

00:05:08 Mark Moseley: Yeah, yeah, to keep all those millions of cameras cool.

00:05:11 Aleksandra King: This is it.

00:05:11 Mark Moseley: Yeah, and there's a lot of people stood around the boardroom that no one sees, and you're thinking, oh my God– everyone– when it's your turn to talk, you've just got 50 eyes on you and you're thinking, oh my God, don't say– the boardroom– I– I wish that I– I could get a hold of all the footage and play all the stuff they didn't show.

00:05:25 Aleksandra King: So you're quoted as saying that Lord Sugar is missing a trick if he doesn't pick you. He didn't pick you, so what trick is he missing?

00:05:32 Mark Moseley: The pest control industry is very lucrative at the moment. Many pest control companies are being bought up by some of the bigger guys, and it's the best time at the moment to sell a pest control company. So if he was invested in me, we'd be probably exiting with seven figures quite comfortably now.

00:05:46 Aleksandra King: And he would have– you reckon? Easy?

00:05:48 Mark Moseley: Well, yeah, I'm not going to go too much into my– the business finances, but yes, we've had offers already, which is great. The business does very well, and the show has helped with that– it's opened quite a lot of doors, which is a bonus.

00:06:00 Aleksandra King: Gives you credibility.

00:06:01 Mark Moseley: And that's the main thing that comes from the–

00:06:02 Aleksandra King: That's the thing– you might have gone out in week eight, but you've got your business, you're running businesses, you're doing several things.

00:06:07 Mark Moseley: Yes.

00:06:07 Aleksandra King: And legitimate money-making businesses.

00:06:10 Mark Moseley: Yes, that's it. It comes down to actually–

00:06:12 Aleksandra King: You must have a fairly, you know, sharp head on your shoulders to be able to carry on, manage, get on–

00:06:17 Mark Moseley: Yeah. To even get on the show– I think you've got to be a character to get on that show, that was the whole point. But it was only when I was watching– there's 20 people in a room and you'll stand behind a bit of paper and they say, 30 seconds to sell yourself, and there's people there going, I've got a great idea for Lord Sugar, and I thought, this is stupid– don't worry about ideas, just be funny. So I just went in and said, you– like– pin ears back, you are looking at the Series 17 Apprentice winner. I'm opinionated, I'm a bit of a charm, as you can all see. And he got a bit of a laugh, and then they were like, number one, five and seven, go to the back of the room– and that was me, I was at the back of room– to the next stage. Yeah, but it was– yeah, like I say– that was ruthless, that whole stuff, you know– you're out, you– you stay, you– I speak– so that's it, yeah. And then it's interviews– I remember speaking to the chief exec of the TV company and then one of his aides– Lord Sugar's aides– and they said, come on then, why you? And I said to him, I said, if you think of Tesla, who do you think of? And the chief exec went, Elon Musk. And I said to the Lord Sugar aide, said, if you think of Amazon, who do you think of? Jeff Bezos. I said, when you think of pest control, you're going to think of Mark Moseley. And they both laughed and they went, up you go– so it was next [unclear: lift]– and I was like– said to the runner, I said, I can't go up any more, I said, I've got four hours on my parking. I ended up with a parking ticket when I left there eight hours later, and I missed my friend's 40th birthday as well in Norfolk, so I had to tell his wife on the group chat, can't make it, car's broke down.

00:07:31 Aleksandra King: Oh yeah, because you can't tell anyone, can you? Yeah. I also heard you saying that you're the best rat catcher in the world.

00:07:36 Mark Moseley: Best rat catcher in London.

00:07:38 Aleksandra King: Oh, in London– not the world, then.

00:07:39 Mark Moseley: Pretty good. Rat's quite intelligent animal.

00:07:41 Aleksandra King: These big ambitions– you've got to extend that. It's a world– universe– you can take over the world.

00:07:46 Mark Moseley: Yeah– pest control– you don't worried about the world so much, you just worried about major cities. That's where the pests are– where there's lots of people, there's going to be lots of pests.

00:07:53 Aleksandra King: So is the experience– The Apprentice experience– what you expected or not? And if not, how– how–

00:07:58 Mark Moseley: I mean– it wasn't– you don't know what you're going into, you're going into a blind process. I think the hardest thing is you are having your phones taken off you– you've got no contact with the outside world, the internet. And I remember I left the process and then one morning I woke up and I thought I was talking to one of the guys in my room on The Apprentice, and I'm talking to him– what time is it, this, that, the other. And I realised– I was like, Jesus Christ– it was last week I was there, I'm back home now. And it was like– like a short version of PTSD. But anyway, so it was– it was a strange run. But no– but the process– like I say, the show gives you credibility, which is the main thing, that's what you want. So if people try and Google you now, they might be able to say, oh, he's a pest controller, he's not out– going to try and rip us off or anything. So it gives you that credibility and people trust in you a bit more, whereas if you're just Joe Bloggs, no one–

00:08:38 Aleksandra King: Depends how you're made to look. It might take away from the credibility. I've spoken to ex-candidates where they've been made to look a certain way– it doesn't necessarily give you that credibility, to be quite–

00:08:49 Mark Moseley: It's– it's how you're edited. So you've got to– I think, main thing, if you're on the show– and anyone's going on the show– you've just got to play the game. You've got to try and– however they want you to act, however they want you to be– and if they want you to be a bit silly– after week two I knew it was a lot of manipulation.

00:09:04 Aleksandra King: So what do you mean by that?

00:09:05 Mark Moseley: There's a lot of things going on. Week one– we're in [unclear: Antigua], and you know that they've got to try and get customers to sell us– we– they're telling us to go places, and there's people there. And one person– we got to this bar one night, try and sell these tickets, and this person was like, are you from the BBC? We're like, what? We just come to sell you tickets. No– they rounded us all up and told us to be here from the beach, and we were like, oh, here we go. And then I thought about it, I thought, maybe– they've got to make a TV show, so let's– they round a few people so we can sell tickets to. And when it got to week two, there was just so many numbers getting– there– one of the big judges got their numbers wrong. Something like– yet– had to make a minimum of 200 bao buns, and the girls had made 180 bao buns, but they won the task, and I was like, that doesn't make sense. And the girls' corporate client wanted 80 bao buns, ours wanted 50 bao buns, so we're already £150 [unclear: down] before we started the task. So in the end, I just– after that task I just started laughing, I said, that's it, I'm just going to have fun now, because it's a lot of manipulation. One of the girls, Shannon– on it she was like, this is ridiculous, this is– this is not–

00:10:01 Aleksandra King: When she means this, what is it?

00:10:02 Mark Moseley: It's them doing what– the manipulation– to try and say, this team are going to win.

00:10:07 Aleksandra King: Yeah, of course– they want car-crash TV for entertainment.

00:10:09 Mark Moseley: So yeah– Shannon– brilliant.

00:10:11 Aleksandra King: Do you think it's a fair game, then? Do you think–

00:10:13 Mark Moseley: I think they've got their favourites. But whether it's a fair game or not, they'll– if your face fits and you– you're okay and they think, oh, we'd be able to work with you– you're fine. But if there's a bit too much pushback from yourself and you're like, no, that's wrong, this is wrong– they don't like it. But yeah– but the girl Shannon– I think she's probably the most successful out of all the candidates, and she was– left on week two and said, this is just ridiculous, because of the manipulation.

00:10:34 Aleksandra King: Yeah, because it's not business acumen.

00:10:35 Mark Moseley: And that's what it was. But at the same time, people love it. I wouldn't– I wouldn't start putting things down too much, because the public loved The Apprentice, and they like to feel good about themselves when they see other people going bad.

00:10:47 Aleksandra King: Yes. And you love it, and it's entertaining and it's fun and everything. However, if you're in that situation and made to look a certain way, then obviously it's not that fun– concerned about– because there's some people that will go on that will be more concerned about their personal brands than– because they need to be– maybe they're more corporate or whatever, maybe they've got family and things like that, so they're a bit more sensitive and careful.

00:11:07 Mark Moseley: Yeah, there was– there was people planned it like that. There was a few of the guys were really reserved, and then when we left, one of the guys on my year said how he's– I wish I'd done what you were like– you just tried to be funny and just tried to have a laugh more. And I'll try and not be the class clown, but I'll have a laugh. It's definitely the way forward– treat it as entertainment, so go for the entertainment side, for sure, if– if you're going to stay in.

00:11:26 Aleksandra King: So what was it like living with the other Apprentice candidates?

00:11:30 Mark Moseley: It was good, we got on really well, yeah.

00:11:33 Aleksandra King: Was it not good for yourself?

00:11:34 Mark Moseley: No– and I went to boarding school and I lived with all sorts, but this crowd–

00:11:39 Aleksandra King: Oh– you weren't– you weren't ostracised out of the group, were you?

00:11:43 Mark Moseley: No, it's just the snoring. Yeah– but also the– I suppose the noise from production coming– I couldn't sleep very well, because I would always– I knew that they were trying to come to film us, so they was pitched up with their little cars outside– I knew they were going to come in at any moment and start camera in your face. It was funny– we'd hear– we'd hear the driveway go– we'd hear the vehicles pull up– and then I'd– [unclear: Avi], in my room– he was a character, real nice chap– and he would do press-ups before they come in. So one morning– yeah, it's funny– so one– one morning I just got naked and I stood at the window sill, and I was like, when they come in, my backside's going to be on– they were going, please don't do this, Mark, please don't do this, Mark, and I was like, no. And then just as they were about to come in, I was like, oh, I better just put my boxers back on. But I thought, because if you're barging into someone's room, you don't know what you're going to find, so I was just going to stand there with a cup of tea, my back– but I thought I better not, because that'll get me in too much trouble. Just trying to have a bit of fun with it.

00:12:33 Aleksandra King: There's something about when you're not eating that much and sleeping that much that things aren't that funny any more. So like– we had that when people would– like– like I said, the people you live with– singing, like, really loud when you– three minutes that you've got sleep– that you're allowed– that you're trying to sleep. Yeah. Right– heavier topic. You were in a race row– a race row with Shazia Hussain, who made a complaint over your behaviour on the show, for leaving her feeling unsafe and distressed following an incident that occurred. So can you talk us through, in your opinion, what happened?

00:13:07 Mark Moseley: There was– we would– just won a task– it was task three, we'd made a cartoon, and we weren't– actually on the same– we were on the same team, but not the same sub-team. And it was all to do with the name of this bloody giraffe– it was [unclear: Yogita] the giraffe– and we were saying, Yogita– two-to-four-year-olds, whatever age category it was, wouldn't be able to pronounce this. If we said [unclear: Gaita], that works perfectly, because kids– Mama, Dada, Ga– work– works. Anyway– the other team– there was heated arguments, and then when it came to– there was half the team were watching on a TV screen in the old Dragons' Den, and the other half were presenting it to these BBC children's cartoon people. And yeah– and Shazia was going, they're doing it wrong, this should be right– so let– let them carry on, blah blah. And then she said something– said, like, I thought you would say that, with the way you are– it was indicating that me and the other guy stood next to me, Brad, were– who we are, our demographic, our background, so on and so forth. So we just zipped up and just went quiet. And then when it came to winning the task– and the judges loved the name and all this lot, and we won the task– and we were in– I don't know– Shazia doing a little cheers with some cocktail, and then, yeah, Shazia made a comment and said– we went, cheers, and she went, the task that I won us. And I was like– so I said, you really are toxic. And that was it. So– because it got personal– that was all I said, okay, and that was it. And next thing there– I want him kicked off the show and all this– thinking, oh my God– was she saying that to– with the production who were behind the camera– and the cameraman– he's now trying to get it– filming it– it's all been filmed. And then when it came out– I'd been forewarned when the show was airing, because later on– I won't say too much, but other things had happened– like production person started crying– was made to cry– legal threats by– yeah–

00:14:48 Aleksandra King: This individual?

00:14:49 Mark Moseley: Yes– all this was going on.

00:14:50 Aleksandra King: So these things had nothing– the subsequent incidents– that these all other– nothing to do with you?

00:14:54 Mark Moseley: Yeah– nothing. So then Sugar basically switched us over with the teams– he was like, you're going different– and then other things happened, and then I heard, like, screaming and shouting, and, we're going to take you to court, and all this– thinking, oh my God. So everyone just quieted– really went quiet. And when the show got aired and Shazia went in whatever week she went– in four or five or six, I'm not sure which one it was– I knew something was going to be coming out a week later. But it was also– it– it was said– you're toxic– that was it. Yeah.

00:15:21 Aleksandra King: Did the PR team speak to you about that?

00:15:25 Mark Moseley: Yeah, just really briefly, yeah. I got loads of phone calls– I missed 25 phone calls from the PR team– the press team.

00:15:32 Aleksandra King: Okay– just hold that for a second. Apprentice launched an investigation into this– into these allegations. Do you know what happened– what the outcome was of that investigation?

00:15:42 Mark Moseley: It was all these HR people we've got– had a diversity and inclusion person came in and spoke to us all as a group, and then I was getting, Mark, can you go and speak to– there was– funny– the– one of these HR people came in, and it was a woman, and she goes, I want you to talk me through exactly what happened. So– so it was boys versus girls on the previous task– well, I'm going to stop you there, because it's not boys and girls– they're adolescent– boys and girls– you are adults. And straight away my back's going up, and I was like, okay, I'll try and keep– I said, okay, so it was gentlemen versus ladies. She went, okay, I'll stop you again– ladies are someone with a title, like in the monarchy. And now my back is really up, so I don't want to talk to this person, and I'm thinking, don't belittle me, I'm just trying to tell you the story. And basically it was– this guy's in the wrong– he's going to be interrogated. And then more HR people– one– two HR ladies– I got woken up on a– our day off– it was about seven in the morning– Mark, some HR people here to see you. I– here we go. Got downstairs, and they said, we've listened to all of the rushes– they call it, where they listen to audio– and they say– it's all– you've not done anything wrong– yes, you've been personal and called someone toxic, but there's nothing– they've said that.

00:16:51 Aleksandra King: Okay– so I'm just going to read this. According to the Metro, a spokesperson for The Apprentice– BBC The Apprentice– said The Apprentice had zero tolerance on racist bullying– the duty of care and welfare of all the candidates is of utmost importance, and when action is required, we take it. So apparently they– they researched it and whatever– and candidates sign up to strict code of conduct, and if there was evidence of racist bullying, candidates would immediately be removed from the process.

00:17:20 Mark Moseley: That was it– my feet wouldn't have touched the ground. But everyone in that house– everyone's normal, nice people, do you know what I mean? No one's out to be– that– racist or whatever– any phobes you can come up with– there's millions out there these days. But yes– and that was all it was. But– and then when these two HR people– they went, look, your next task is the motorbike task and then you're off to Dubai. And none of us had been told about Dubai, and I thought, they've just let it slip. So I left there now, and I was like, I might just go and tell a couple of people. Anyway– oh, you know– went– told a couple of the lads, I said, look, basically they've just let slip we're off to Dubai, so we need to get through this next task to get to Du– to go to Dubai. And yeah– and I told a few people, and then they told a few people– most of the candidates knew, and I'm like, oh, why did I say– this is going to put me in bad [unclear: stead].

00:18:04 Aleksandra King: Have you reached out to Shazia at all, to just say, look, you misunderstood my situation, or whatever– did you?

00:18:10 Mark Moseley: I've had a– had my 40th birthday, which was– and I invited all the candidates– invited her, of course I did, yeah– everyone's– I invited all the cast, crew and everyone, so everyone got invited– but she didn't turn up. But no– there's no odd feelings– I wish you all the best– it was just the heat of the moment.

00:18:28 Aleksandra King: Right, okay– we'll move away from– we'll move away from The Apprentice right now. You're a soldier.

00:18:34 Mark Moseley: Yes.

00:18:34 Aleksandra King: Why did you join the Army?

00:18:36 Mark Moseley: I'd had enough of school, actually. I joined at 16, so as soon as I'd done my GCSEs I just signed up to the military. I didn't really want to go college, university, and it wasn't because I got bad grades– I did– a lot– A's, B's and C's in all the major ones. And I joined the military at 16, I thought, right– and I wanted to go in the Infantry, but because of my GCSE grades were okay, they said, we want you to go into the Royal Engineers and not the Infantry. So I– anyway, I joined the Royal Engineers, 16 years of age– it was great. And then, yeah, after two years of training in Royal Engineers– building bridges, demolitions and being an electrician– two years later I got sent out to Germany, my first posting, which– yeah, I stayed in Germany for seven years, and I'd do six months Germany, six months on tour somewhere.

00:19:15 Aleksandra King: So just in general, what was it like serving your country as a soldier?

00:19:19 Mark Moseley: It was good. It's all about meeting the people– being in the regiment I was in, you've got people from all over the country, so Scottish guys, Welsh guys, and we all just thrown into the boiling pot of basic training. But it was fantastic– I– I loved it.

00:19:33 Aleksandra King: Were you proud, you know?

00:19:34 Mark Moseley: Yeah, of course– you– when you pass out after basic training, your mum and dad are there, and you stood there in number two outfit, and you– of course you feel proud. But at the same time, it's– you're not doing it for– I shouldn't say queen and country– at the time it was Queen and country– you're doing it just for– one, it's a job, and two, now you've been with all these people you enjoy– it's like working–

00:19:51 Aleksandra King: As I– sometimes look at countries like the States, and even Poland, where I'm from– and that– they really do treasure their military. If you say, I'm military– oh wow– respect, immediate respect. I don't think we have enough of that in this country– like– we don't value our military enough. We should– we should, really.

00:20:09 Mark Moseley: Well, the Americans– American people– American soldiers– and they'll walk through a train station and they all get clapped. Whereas at the moment– like– we used to go out, and they used to– the bouncers used to say to us, are you in the military? And you say, yeah, and they say, we're not coming in tonight– as though it's like a standard thing that all the military guys will be fighting.

00:20:27 Aleksandra King: So I know you've gone to– of interesting places with the Army, done some cool things, but one of the best stories I think has something to do with the Taliban– so tell us about that.

00:20:36 Mark Moseley: In 2003 we got sent out to Afghanistan– Mazar-i-Sharif was the province– and we got sent into this derelict sort of house, if you like– it was a row of houses– and when you think of houses, it's more like, say, mud huts– but you can see it's a big mud hut, if you like. So they said, this is going to be a Norwegian safe house, so we want you to basically build it up– we need to put toilets in there, we need to put sewage system in the back garden and things. And when we were digging up the back gardens, we were digging up, like, bones of people, and it was like, oh my God– whereas if you dig up a bone of a person now– like what happened with– is it King Richard– they dug up in a car park– all the construction work has to stop– but that wasn't the case– bones to the side. And we'd made these showers where– basically it's a solar shower, so you put your bag– put some water in a bag, the sun heats it up, you hang it up, and then you have a shower underneath it. So we're having our shower was– and next door– the Taliban, who lived next door– and they would be stood there with AK-47– you know, automatic rifles– just looking at us having a shower, and you're like, mate, what's going on? They just stood there. So we're thinking– we were all friends at the time. They invited us around for dinner– it was crazy.

00:21:43 Aleksandra King: What did they cook for you?

00:21:44 Mark Moseley: It was lamb– it was like a– yeah, it was like a lamb stew– the meat was on the bone.

00:21:48 Aleksandra King: You trust it?

00:21:48 Mark Moseley: It was right– the meat was on the bone. I don't like meat on the bone, but yeah, we had this lamb stew– it was great. And in the middle of the night you'd hear, like, a big commotion going on– they'd all go off in one of these, like, open-back trucks– like, man, what is going on out there? And we weren't seen as a threat, so we were all friends with the Taliban– so they would go off fighting other rebels in town, and then they would come back, and we– thinking, what has gone on? So we were all– we were living in the basement of this building with our rifles stood to, thinking, is this going to come for us? And– and about– obviously two or three years later, even though we were friends with the Taliban– two or three years later– that will change– when things heated up, and I can imagine– I heard the Norwegian safe [unclear: house] just got blown up straight away– even though we'd built it. As soon as things heated up a bit more and the troops had finally moved into Afghanistan, anything we'd built just got blown up, I think overnight. But it was interesting at the time– it's the political situation. We'd just walk to go and get water in the morning– two of us would just walk through town with our rifles– people would shake our hands, say hello– really friendly– and things– fill up– yeah– a load of solar showers with this well– all the kids would be around us, and we'd walk back with the wheelbarrow full of all these solar shower water– water-filled– to shower, sorry. And then– you shouldn't obviously be able to do that these days, because– yeah– what happened. But it was an interesting time– but we got to see it before war really got announced in Afghanistan. All depends where you are– spend quite a lot of time in Kabul– it is like going back– and I'll be careful, I don't– to upset anyone– but it's like going back to a third world, if you like– really going back 100 or 200 years– except they've got electricity– we've got more electricity– that's what it's like. Especially in, like, the remote areas– like, you go out to the forward operating bases and there's just nothing there. I mean, we used to get– I remember we went down to one forward operating base– and we had to go and build a big watchtower– and it was called FOB Shank. It was an American base, but it got more indirect fire from mortars and rockets a day than the whole of Afghanistan– other– all the other camps put together. So when I was down there, it was just constant– the alarms are going off, take cover– and you just running for the closest bunkers and things, and you're hearing– bang– you're thinking, oh my God, please don't land on me.

00:23:49 Aleksandra King: You– no wonder Apprentice was fine for you.

00:23:53 Mark Moseley: [unclear] about that– I was still shaking.

00:23:54 Aleksandra King: That's the sort of practice you– you need, in a way, to go into that, I think. So– you travelled for 18 months after the Army, and apparently you visited over 100 countries. Can you list the countries, please?

00:24:05 Mark Moseley: Now– let's– let's– let's– I'd love to list all 100–

00:24:08 Aleksandra King: Let's see what you can list, then– go.

00:24:10 Mark Moseley: I'll list my favourites. So for scenery, without a doubt it's got to be the South Island, New Zealand– probably most beautiful place I've ever been to.

00:24:17 Aleksandra King: Just list– well– list them all– let go.

00:24:20 Mark Moseley: I could list the countries– like–

00:24:22 Aleksandra King: List the countries that you travel through– just start off with Afghanistan.

00:24:25 Mark Moseley: I obviously– well, I was travelling– but I go through the alphabet– go– Afghanistan, Austria, [unclear: Azerbaijan], Belgium, Cameroon, Congo, Chad, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Egypt, England, Finland– that's a beautiful place if you go to Santa Claus Village– every Christmas– yeah. Do you want me to keep going?

00:24:46 Aleksandra King: Keep going.

00:24:46 Mark Moseley: I'll be here all–

00:24:47 Aleksandra King: Keep going.

00:24:49 Mark Moseley: H–

00:24:49 Aleksandra King: You're only on nine.

00:24:50 Mark Moseley: I know– but yeah– I can just– maybe I'll just go through the– America– joking– Australia, New Zealand, Thailand–

00:24:58 Aleksandra King: Tell me some of the most unusual– tell me three really unusual places that people wouldn't have heard of– there– ones that people don't go to on holiday, let's say.

00:25:05 Mark Moseley: So we got sent to the Congo for four months– and anyone– any of my mates who watched this will be like, oh, not about the bloody Congo again– but that was an interesting time. So there had been a– a fight between these two militias in [unclear: Bunia], and we had to go and build a runway, and then build an apron off this runway to get more aid in. And when we're there– I'll be– trying– won't– to keep it too serious– but a French journalist turned up, and he went down into the town and only his head came back.

00:25:32 Aleksandra King: And there– I was about to ask you– did you take your malaria tablets when you–

00:25:35 Mark Moseley: God– Lariam, yeah.

00:25:36 Aleksandra King: So you also say that you've met a lot of people– hundreds of people– and including royal family, including celebrities. Tell me the three biggest name– let's have it– who's the first one?

00:25:49 Mark Moseley: Breakfast with Princess Anne.

00:25:50 Aleksandra King: She's nice, isn't she? She's beautiful– like– just such a lovely person– disciplined– wonderful woman.

00:25:55 Mark Moseley: Yeah. It's a good one– yeah– I met Prince Harry, but it was only just a handshake– but so it's again– it's the royal family, okay. And I'm trying to think– I was going to say, like, a football player or something– but one that stuck out in my head as a kid– the old actor Vinnie Jones. My brother had a football trials with Wimbledon, and I was a kid, and this guy Vinnie Jones, who's a football player for Wimbledon, turned up, and he– he went past me and there was no one there except me– I just went, you– right– and he went– all– and I just went quiet. And he basically come back– and I was only a kid, and he's like the hard man of football at the time– and he got– went, what's the matter– cat got your tongue? And I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. He went, I'm only joking. And I was like– but that will always stick in my memory. But he's great– I thought he was fantastic. I met him once after– I didn't say that story– but he was– yeah, that was always a thing. But yeah, we do jobs for– I'm not going to name-drop any people, because no one wants to know they've got pests– but from– yeah, that would be controversial– many royals to– many celebrities to– yeah– whatever– many rich businessmen. But it does– I wouldn't name-drop, because no one wants to know they've got mice, rats, cockroaches or whatever else in their property.

00:26:59 Aleksandra King: Yeah– as long as you're nice to bees, if you find them– I hope you don't consider those pests.

00:27:02 Mark Moseley: No– we don't consider– if we lost the bees tomorrow, it would cost the farming industry billions to cross-pollinate. You got to be nice to the bees– yeah, we always say, leave bees be.

00:27:09 Aleksandra King: Because– obviously– they feel sorry for wasps– but yeah–

00:27:12 Mark Moseley: Well, they don't care– they– bees are placid insects, whereas wasps– they're just a flying– they will sting you.

00:27:19 Aleksandra King: They– that's rude.

00:27:20 Mark Moseley: That's what they are, essentially– they will just sting you, and they think– but doesn't matter, I'll sting you. And when they sting, they release a pheromone– which tells– it's an aggressive pheromone– so the other wasps then go, we need to sting as well, so then they all go for you. Whereas the bees– yes, they will sting you, but they know they're going to ultimately suffer– they're going to die after the sting– so they're placid. But wasps just are–

00:27:37 Aleksandra King: But we've got this hornet problem now, don't we– in– in Asian– Asian hornets.

00:27:41 Mark Moseley: Yes– so Asian hornets target our bees, and they're horrible things. They've now been found on the UK mainland– think they were mainly in Jersey– they were being found in Jersey– the big problem over in Europe– and now they've been found in Jersey a couple years ago, and now we're finding nests on the UK mainland.

00:27:55 Aleksandra King: Yeah– you better have your wits about you– going to deal with that pest.

00:27:59 Mark Moseley: Yeah– you get sting from one of them– they– yeah– anaphylactic shock– you are in big bother. So people are dying– people have died after having these Asian hornets stinging–

00:28:07 Aleksandra King: Stop.

00:28:07 Mark Moseley: Yeah– there– a good– French guy was having a barbecue some years ago– Asian hornets– stung him– dead.

00:28:12 Aleksandra King: Okay– let's talk about another one– travel one. Snow leopards. You were hunting– looking for–

00:28:17 Mark Moseley: Not hunting.

00:28:18 Aleksandra King: No– not hunting– you were trying to find snow leopards.

00:28:22 Mark Moseley: Yes.

00:28:22 Aleksandra King: Mongolia.

00:28:23 Mark Moseley: Yes.

00:28:23 Aleksandra King: Now– cats– and especially snow leopards– are the most private and elusive cats of all cats– correct?

00:28:30 Mark Moseley: Yeah.

00:28:30 Aleksandra King: So what made you think that you would– they would go, there's Mark from The Apprentice– that was it–

00:28:35 Mark Moseley: What– the– say– how you say that– I went to Mongolia, and I went to this– like– first– [unclear: Ulaanbaatar]– the capital– and went to this shopping mall there– it was like– this– again, it's a bit third-worldy– and you go to this shopping mall, which is all very smart and plush– and there was a girl– was in the camping shop getting a head torch, because I left mine– and this girl went, excuse me– were you on The Apprentice? There– and I was like, oh my God– you come to Mongolia and someone sees you. But– but that was good. But the snow leopards– I don't know– I think ever since I watched the Planet Earth one– David Attenborough– you see the snow leopard– it's just a beautiful creature. My mum was– always had cats– but I'm more of a dog person– but I just fell in love with this animal, and I thought, I'd love to go and see one in the wild. Yes– they're called the ghost cat– and so I thought, well, I'll go–

00:29:15 Aleksandra King: Ghost cat ghosted you, pretty much.

00:29:16 Mark Moseley: We came close. There was two brothers– and we were told– so there was trackers out before us– they would go off first thing in the morning– we'd go off different ways– and we're up and down hills– I think I just like the adventure anyway– it's all snowing and it's just really, really cool– I love all that sort of stuff. And they said they found– we found two snow leopards– it's the brothers. So we– trying to go over these peaks, and we're trying to get there– anyway– this tourist– American tourist– decided to get his drone up. So he's got this drone up, and he's gone over to where these snow leopards are– he's scared the– the cats– and they've gone over these hills. And then we get there about a half hour later, and they said, oh, they were here– but mate's gone and got his drone up and he scared them away. Yes– me and 30 or four others were quite upset, and we were– close to strangling this tourist with his drone. But anyway– but we'd only seen him for about– probably around about 8– 800 metres would be the closest– but you've all got binoculars and things. But I love– like– the snow leopard– don't say the ghost cat– it's quite private– see a bit– myself in the ghost cat– mysterious.

00:30:15 Aleksandra King: Yeah– no– I– I don't think it's the drone– I think the cat just didn't want to see you guys– I mean– drone– not drone. Okay– so you came close to being killed– twice?

00:30:25 Mark Moseley: Yes– a few times– a year– we've come close– I think– the closest I ever came was again in Afghanistan. I was on an airbase called Bagram, and you live in– probably a container about as big as this room– it's like the old– the ISO shipping containers you see. So they get taken away from the shipping companies– I– whether they fall off a back of a lorry– and then they fit them out to– put toilets in– air conditioning. So I had this– and– yeah– we– outside my room there was something called a [unclear: Phalanx] gun– it's an automatic weapon– and you hear it go off– and it– it tries to hit– indirect fire– if there's a rocket coming in, this gun will fire off hundreds of bullets in a few seconds to try and knock it out the sky. And it sounds– it goes– and it go– it's spinning around– you're thinking– anyway– when I'd hear that go, I'd think, oh God– is it coming close to me? And then usually the first one would land, and then all the alarms on the camp would go, so everyone's got to take cover. But yeah– one night I remember I was sitting watching the Peaky Blinders– someone had told me, you need to watch the Peaky Blinders– I'm sat there on my laptop watching the Peaky Blinders– minders– and I hears– and I think, oh no– that Phalanx is going– and I think, it'll be okay, it'll be okay– and then I hear– you know– it sounds like the cartoon– you hear it– and I was like, oh no– and I thought, this is coming. The first thing I did was just jump on my bed– but if it hits the top of my container, it's going through and it's going to hit the floor. And it probably landed– when we went outside the next morning we could see where it landed– it wasn't like a massive crater– it was a small crater– and it was probably about 10 to 15 metres away. But when it hit the stones, all the stones went up and hit all the side of my thing– which isn't bad, because I thought, at least the stones– they get pushed up in the air. But I remember thinking myself, that is the closest– I stayed under my bed for about 20 minutes, just shaking– just shaking. And then one of my colleagues– yeah– there's– I just got this knock on the door, and there's– open the door– he goes, where are you? And I was like, I'm under the bed. And he was like, you tart– get up. Anyway– I just said to him, I said, that's the closest I've ever come. And he was like, yeah, that was a close one. But it was exciting, and it's a story– tell– but yeah– that made me reassess– that was probably the last sort of six months of my time working in private security, because it– things were getting a bit dangerous. There was sadly a guy who opened his window to the wrong person in Kabul and didn't survive. You– you drive through Kabul in unmarked vehicles, and the police– as soon as they see it's a Western complexion– they'd be like, stop– and now you're really– you're now sat on the side of the road, and it would be like, we want water, we want food, and we'll let you go. And we're like, we've got all the passes to drive through– it's called the– the silver area– silver zone, if you like– Ring of Steel they used to call it– but they wouldn't– yeah– every time we went into the Ring of Steel they would want water off us– and we have water– but they wouldn't let us go. Anyway– one guy sadly opened his door– not a British guy– was talking to the police officer, and then sadly a knife came through– and then we– see– it drove past– and we were like, do not open our windows to anyone. And then that was probably about three months– I– the– the mortar that happened– and then three months later I left. I was like, that's me– because– say– yeah– it was getting a bit dangerous.

00:33:23 Aleksandra King: But– okay– so what are you doing now– now?

00:33:25 Mark Moseley: So I still own the pest control business– it's doing well, which is nice– yes, it's doing well– and whether I sell it in the next couple of years, or whether I sell it this year– I don't know– I've had a few offers. And I've done a little side project as well– doing something completely different. I don't think I've got a bad hair– and you– probably people say it's right– but I don't think I've got too bad hair– so I– hair products– so thought– get– I've always worn pomades in my hair since about 2005.

00:33:50 Aleksandra King: What is that?

00:33:51 Mark Moseley: The pomade– it became famous– used to be, like, pigs' fat they used to put in their hairs– but it became really synonymous back in the 1920s with the gangsters. Yeah– it's a hard– like– gel, if you like– so people always think it's the slick back– if you put it in your hair dry, it actually holds it quite nicely. Yes– so I thought– every time I've spoke about pomades, people go, I don't use pomades, I use whatever else– and I said, you know what, I'll come up with a pomade. So I've come up with a couple of products, and now I sell them on social media. It does– it does– I'm not going to go into the financial side of it, but it does.

00:34:20 Aleksandra King: You have one here to show us– or–

00:34:22 Mark Moseley: I do, yeah.

00:34:22 Aleksandra King: But go on– bring it up– bring that bad boy– bring it up. This is it– but this is– oh– can I open it? How does it actually–

00:34:30 Mark Moseley: So it's– it's like a wax– you can open it, yeah.

00:34:33 Aleksandra King: So– oh– that's– it's solid.

00:34:36 Mark Moseley: Yeah– it's not a wax– it's a– yeah– pomade.

00:34:38 Aleksandra King: Smells nice– yeah– but that all came off– looks like jelly.

00:34:41 Mark Moseley: Yeah– that's pretty much– yes– it's like gelatine, if you like– but it's beeswax.

00:34:45 Aleksandra King: I'm not going to try it– not–

00:34:46 Mark Moseley: No– I wouldn't. But it was– that– that came– spawned off the back of the Apprentice– that– so it basically– yeah– one of the candidates on there– [unclear: H]– Joe– lovely chap he was– had a lip balm product called Surf Balm– so he was telling me all about it, and I thought, I wish I had a product to sell when you leave the process– if you had a product to sell– great, because you can make a bit of money out–

00:35:07 Aleksandra King: Always easier.

00:35:07 Mark Moseley: Yeah– so I thought, I'll just start my own products. I went through the brand in [unclear: Ox] here– because I think– you know– I'm trying to target men 30 to 50 year olds– because Ox is a resilient animal– it's gone through some arduous things– I think–

00:35:18 Aleksandra King: You're quite a resilient animal.

00:35:20 Mark Moseley: Yeah– this is it– see– men who sort of– having–

00:35:22 Aleksandra King: Okay– sell it to me– why is that a good product? Go on, then– why is it good?

00:35:25 Mark Moseley: This is a good product because it– it will keep your hair in place for most of the day– shake it on– yeah– even when you're playing football and things– or sports. Also, it's water-based– it's not oil-based. Water-based products come out your hair easier– oil-based is a nightmare to try and get out your hair.

00:35:40 Aleksandra King: So– okay– so you can wash it out easily. How long does it stay in your– in your hair?

00:35:44 Mark Moseley: It will stand in your hair for about 12 hours– that's what we– you can– with pomades– if you– your hair starts drying out, you can get a bit of water– and put a slight bit of water in your hair, and then it's back to set how it was– it's fantastic. But yeah– pomades– my selling techniques probably not the best– but TikTok's where you need to sell these days– I've been doing TikTok Shop live videos for an hour– just stood there in front of the camera talking about–

00:36:05 Aleksandra King: Audience– you have a decent– better try a bit harder– if you–

00:36:08 Mark Moseley: I have to try a bit harder. Buy your–

00:36:11 Aleksandra King: That's right– you get it for your partner, and then– we'll see. When I spoke to you earlier, you said that you sometimes feel lonely running your own business. Is that still the case, or have you made more friends– the e-commerce–

00:36:23 Mark Moseley: Yeah– there is a good group of e-commerce people that I've met– lot– to be fair– ex-military guys– everyone's trying to sell their little products and things, which is good. But I think when you are a business owner, it is lonely– it's just– you're fighting against everyone else. And I went to a do last night– some boxing do– black-tie event– and it was all business owners, and everyone says the same thing– and everyone's having this problem at the moment of hiring staff. And again– I'll be careful with your audiences– but it's the younger staff they're really struggling with. I spoke to two business owners on my table, and they said, we're hiring people in their 20s– early 20s– and the communication skills just isn't there. And I'm saying– maybe it's because they're on their phone a lot– they don't– they won't ever go out after work– not to socialise– but when they do a work event, they try and avoid it– sort– if they take everyone out to tenpin bowling or something– says– it's just not there– and then they leave early and things. Not generalising too much– that's what I was saying. So I thought– it's– in my business there– won't employ too many younger people these days– because people don't want to get into pest control– it's a dying industry. So any time you see a pest control– and most of them these days were in their 30s– and you'll see some in their 60s– so– where– the pest control goes out the window in the coming years– because the younger generation want to do sexy, cool things on TikTok and things.

00:37:33 Aleksandra King: We don't know– there's definitely a different mindset– and different doesn't necessarily mean bad– yeah– but they do think differently– and for sure– something like a work-life balance. In the olden days we used to be able to– like– oh– it's like– it's all about the work, and you come to office and you work till you die, and you have to give your kidney for this work, and you have to– like– those sort of things– I– forget your family– forget your– no way– don't eat– sleep– forget about it– give your soul to this work– like– that– those days– you're– hard– those days– they're going now. Because obviously you can do that, and it's going to be– it's going to be good– but then you might have the– out– look at [unclear: Steve Jobs] and– and that sort of thing– I always go back to that– it's like– that– that is the price– that is an ultimate price. And if it's your own business, you're more inclined to do that– why wouldn't you give your kidney and your whatever, if you have this dream and you want to change the world? But then if you're an employee– you just seen someone going, come on, stay late– come on, don't go home– don't see your friends– no– I don't care about that– but the work– it's really important– you work– really–

00:38:33 Mark Moseley: There is that side– I agree– there– there has to be a balance somewhere. There's– friends of mine– they're in offices where they say some people can't come in because there– not– have seats now– they've downsized their office space– and says– people have to be doing– they can't all come into the office– what's it called– where they do– whatever working– or flexible working– is– yes. But– and then you hear recently in [unclear: Poland]– government– with– saying, we're going to go into a four-day week and things– that's really– work stuff going on there– and you think, this just can't happen– because– yes, it can happen with some people– but then they say, we're going to work longer– we'll do 12-hour days– and you think, come on, guys– no one's going to do a 12-hour day– because there– people will start slacking off– especially people at home. I was only around someone's yesterday, and they were going, oh– did you tap my computer screen for me? And partner's like, I forgot– and– oh, you idiot– and you're thinking, this is actually a real thing. Yeah– but I don't know– it's hard– it's a hard one– balance is key. But yeah– I don't know.

00:39:22 Aleksandra King: What's next for you? Love Island? Something else?

00:39:25 Mark Moseley: No– there's nothing on the books for me–

00:39:27 Aleksandra King: Girls?

00:39:28 Mark Moseley: No– don't– I've got a few–

00:39:29 Aleksandra King: Going to stay away from TV, then?

00:39:31 Mark Moseley: Yeah– I think I'd probably rather stay away from TV, if I'm honest with you. But I'm looking at maybe– doing– next year– going on a road trip across America for four weeks. I don't usually take much time off from work– I usually have a– a long weekend here and there– so I have about 10 days off a year– and my weekends. But next year I thought– you know what– March, April time– I'll either go to Japan for a month, or I'll drive across the States for a month. That's my next plan– so– want to do one of these big trips– as I've never– road trip– Route 66 or something– do you know what I mean– I'd love to go and see, like, some mountains– or go get a flight up to Alaska– because I like the mountains.

00:40:00 Aleksandra King: Unfortunately no snow leopards there, though. Leave the cats alone.

00:40:04 Mark Moseley: Yeah– I'll try to.

00:40:05 Aleksandra King: Let the cat come to you– never chase the cat.

00:40:07 Mark Moseley: True. I'll get myself a dog– that'll do.

00:40:10 Aleksandra King: Yeah– on that note– thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today– it's been great.

00:40:15 Mark Moseley: I– thank you for having me.