Breaking Barriers in Business & Life | Samuel Brooksworth

Cold open

00:00:00 Aleksandra King: In this episode I'm interviewing Samuel Brooksworth. Samuel and I get into everything about Apprentice, right– the good, bad and the ugly. He talks about what The Apprentice has taught him about Black men in business. It's really one you don't want to miss. Samuel has literally featured in GQ, in Forbes, in The Times. He is a proper successful business entrepreneur. You've got to tune in and listen to this one.

Interview

00:00:31 Aleksandra King: Samuel, I'm really happy to have you here today.

00:00:35 Samuel Brooksworth: Great to see you.

00:00:36 Aleksandra King: On The Apprentice, when I met you in 2016, you were one of the more sane and credible candidates, if I did say so. I mean, obviously there are good candidates on there. I think everyone that goes on there is good, but I think you were one of the stronger ones.

00:00:52 Samuel Brooksworth: I think that everyone goes in there with different agendas. Everyone goes on there with different intents– how they want to proceed and how they want to be perceived, how they want to be portrayed. So I think that plays on their minds as to how they act, and you find that after, a lot of them are nothing like how they portrayed themselves to be. Or because they had an idea of how they wanted to be perceived out in the public, or an opportunity to be in the spotlight, they come across a certain way which doesn't always do them credit. But I found that once we kind of broke down the walls over the weeks, they were all kind of sane, how they portrayed themselves. In that moment sometimes it– it was intense.

00:01:30 Aleksandra King: It was intense. You were pretty much– and you still are, 'cause I've seen you at like networking events and stuff like that. I think what we saw on TV with you– like, just calm, controlled, focused. You are that person and you weren't acting.

00:01:42 Samuel Brooksworth: I have never really cared about fame. I was brought up as a purpose-driven person, so my understanding of what I was taught to believe growing up is that if you believe in something and you do something for a reason, everything else will follow.

00:01:56 Aleksandra King: What I liked about you is that you were like– once you saw that, you were like, yeah, you know, I'm not doing this any more, and you walked.

00:02:02 Samuel Brooksworth: To get onto the show, understandably, knowing TV, you need to come across a certain way for them to even consider you and select you.

00:02:08 Aleksandra King: Mhm.

00:02:09 Samuel Brooksworth: So I think the way I potentially came across in the interview stages and the way I was in the show– yeah, producers kept pulling me to a side. Are you not going to talk? Are you not going to come across this way? Are you not going to say this, say– and they wanted me to be that arrogant, brash–

00:02:23 Aleksandra King: They did.

00:02:24 Samuel Brooksworth: –salesperson that was just rubbing people the wrong way. But that's actually not me.

00:02:29 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:02:29 Samuel Brooksworth: So there are moments of that as a salesperson, where you will show that kind of like– that zeal, or they show that kind of character, but that's not me. In general I'm quite chilled and quiet person.

00:02:40 Aleksandra King: Mhm.

00:02:40 Samuel Brooksworth: Really, really frustrated them. It got to a point where I'd– pulled aside for a few occasions where they're like, are you not going to do this thing? And you're not, like, no.

00:02:47 Aleksandra King: It is TV, so to be fair, I understand that they're making entertainment. But if you're like also a credible business person– you're in the corporate and it's formal, and you know, how you come across, the professionalism and that, it's important– then that's going to become an issue, because you don't want to be portrayed in a certain way and being really silly and–

00:03:08 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah, you're not able to do that when you know you can, and then you see things that would make you look like that, 'cause you want to protect your brand.

00:03:16 Aleksandra King: And then you know that your brand is at risk actually of being, you know–

00:03:21 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah.

00:03:21 Aleksandra King: –toyed with, yeah, publicly. And then that will affect your professional life, because some people's careers have tanked–

00:03:28 Samuel Brooksworth: Yep.

00:03:29 Aleksandra King: –because of this, 'cause they've come across so badly. People don't realise how demanding– like, the no TV, the no music, the no reading factual books, the–

00:03:39 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah, waking up at random times in the morning, not eating properly, not being able to talk–

00:03:42 Aleksandra King: I couldn't– it was difficult, not being able to talk when the cameras weren't rolling, being in silence.

00:03:48 Samuel Brooksworth: Just being dragged around from location to location without no real idea as to where you were and why you've been taken to those places. It's a lot mentally, which people don't realise, and it all plays into great TV, but not actually realistic. And there's a lot of dos and don'ts that you can and can't do on the show, as you're aware. So a lot of people come across as stupid, and then people think it's their ideas that they're presenting when they're actually given an option.

00:04:11 Aleksandra King: So let's go back a little bit. Let's go back to your childhood.

00:04:15 Samuel Brooksworth: Childhood was really, really chilled, really calm growing up. So we– I moved from London straight to Bury, and Bury's like a small town at the outskirts of Manchester. Going to a high school at that age where there weren't many Black kids in the school, a lot of the kids were very ignorant of their perspectives of what they expected from Black people. I remember the first day of school, I went to the playground, and the whole school– basically the whole school gathered around my twin brother and I, and they wanted us to rap, 'cause they thought we were Dizzee Rascal's cousins, and we were like, whoa. There's only so much the school can do. A lot of it falls to parents and the education that the parents give to them in their homes, and their understanding of Britain and their understanding of the history of Britain, and their understanding– and if the parents have been in one place, in one thing, they only know that thing. They're not open to the world. They're sort of living in their narrow– and it's very narrow-minded–

00:05:10 Aleksandra King: Bubble that's just not really stretched in the way it should be.

00:05:15 Samuel Brooksworth: Exactly. But I feel as though Britain is changing, but not in a positive way, mainly due to the mindset and non-acceptance of other cultures and different races and different belief systems. But I'm not a politician, so that's not my place for me to–

00:05:33 Aleksandra King: But you're allowed your view. You know, you're allowed your view. You're allowed your view, and you know, you see things in the way that you've seen them.

00:05:39 Samuel Brooksworth: Actually, you know what– so I've been working throughout my school, and after school I did like– 16, I worked at Marks and Spencer's, which was a really good experience. I did street fundraising during uni as well, just so I could really– I loved sales, but I wanted to really understand what it would be like to sell in different regions, different areas of the country, how to object to people and how could overcome them, and I really honed my sales skills from talking to different people from different walks of life on the streets of London.

00:06:06 Aleksandra King: You're putting yourself out there.

00:06:07 Samuel Brooksworth: Had to. I was spat at, I was– I was chased, people tried to spit into–

00:06:12 Aleksandra King: You were spat at? How did you deal with this?

00:06:16 Samuel Brooksworth: I never let that moment ruin my day. And it was difficult, but I knew that in that moment– in that moment, something's happened. There's another eight hours left of the working day. Why would I allow that ten seconds to ruin my eight hours? And something I just constantly had to– and I'm happy I went through that street fundraising experience, 'cause it really trained me for that. So when I'd go into that call centre roles or sales roles or shop floor– selling cars, selling forklift trucks, whatever I'd sell– because of that experience, it just helped me. I never allowed–

00:06:45 Aleksandra King: Okay, okay, but that– okay, someone spits at you. How do you control yourself?

00:06:53 Samuel Brooksworth: My dad used to always tell me, whenever you're in situations like that, put yourself in another person's shoes. So growing up, I was– I think during my early teens, I was a very, very– I got to a point where I became very– I don't know, not angry, but I had a lot of energy, and I knew I could physically dominate a lot of people, so I was not scared of things. I was very– yeah. And I'd always get into situations where– that would be like, listen, in that situation where you've got annoyed at somebody–

00:07:18 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:07:18 Samuel Brooksworth: –put yourself in their shoes. So let's say we're having this discussion and you've got really angry and you've tried to attack me, or whatever has happened. My dad would say to me, okay, let's take that isolated situation. Think about it logically. Maybe she had a really frustrating day. Maybe she was annoyed because at home– you don't know what she's encountering with her parents, maybe her boyfriend, maybe her husband. You don't know what's happened in her life. Maybe she's been abused, so she just wants to take her frustration out on somebody else. Put yourself in the person's shoes and think of all the situations they can encounter as to why they'd react the way they'd react. The moment you do that, and you have empathy in situations like that, you'll always react differently.

00:07:53 Aleksandra King: Yeah, it's wiser–

00:07:54 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah.

00:07:55 Aleksandra King: Well– than trying to fight someone who's like– one– yeah. Okay, so you are now the CEO of Remoteli.

00:08:06 Samuel Brooksworth: Yes.

00:08:07 Aleksandra King: How did this happen?

00:08:08 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah, so during the pandemic, I was an account director at The Guardian, and I noticed a lot of businesses were massively struggling to grow. Their businesses were encountering a lot of difficulties, especially during that period. Fortunately, unfortunately, I was then furloughed for a period of time, so it helped me– give me a lot of time to think, after the initial discussions with organisations and the things they were encountering and what they were kind of going through. And I thought to myself, how can I support or help a lot of these businesses that are struggling so massively during this really, really difficult period? Coincidentally, well– along that, my wife and I used to travel to Ghana, which is our home country–

00:08:51 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:08:52 Samuel Brooksworth: –every year. And every year I'd go to Ghana, I would see that there were young people who were overly skilled and overly competent, but they weren't ever granted opportunities. And now, as horrific as Covid was in the world, at times I like to call it a great equaliser. It levelled the playing field for a lot of individuals in different parts of the world who couldn't gain opportunities, but were able to gain them because opportunities were opening up to everyone across the world. So I thought to myself, that eureka moment when I was walking up and down my living room– why not– why not match these two opportunities? Why not get these organisations who are struggling to find the right people, competent and skilled individuals, in the UK– why not match them individuals in Ghana who can do the roles really well? And as everyone's working online, why can't they do it?

00:09:32 Aleksandra King: A proper entrepreneur right there. Like, you know, something– opportunities and disaster going on, but come on, it's– you know. And in a tough moment as well for you– below you, sort of– everyone's down.

00:09:43 Samuel Brooksworth: What I had as a concept and idea– yes, it was challenging or difficult, going to a country I was not born in, I never lived in, didn't have– fully understood the language–

00:09:53 Aleksandra King: Understand the language.

00:09:54 Samuel Brooksworth: Can speak it, but living in a country where you don't– back–

00:09:58 Aleksandra King: Yeah, like, you had– I don't understand the culture, like the mindset, the people, how they grew up, what they experienced. Oh my goodness. You probably needed that injection back to really, you know, submerge and understand the natives.

00:10:10 Samuel Brooksworth: And it was a lot, but luckily we had a good team of individuals. We hired really good people. We were very blessed and very– some would say lucky– with opportunities that came our way, and from there it grew and grew and grew, and now it's become a recognisable– well– recognisable global brand in the industry that we're in, and hopefully– well–

00:10:28 Aleksandra King: It's more than recognisable. You've appeared on Forbes, GQ–

00:10:33 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah, yeah.

00:10:33 Aleksandra King: You guys have won awards. It's more than recognisable. So you're doing really well. So you're flying. So what is the goal with Remoteli?

00:10:41 Samuel Brooksworth: The goal is to ensure that we hire a million-plus people in the continent of Africa. That is the long-term goal.

00:10:49 Aleksandra King: Continent of Africa?

00:10:50 Samuel Brooksworth: Yes, yes, that's the goal. So it's beyond– I– we want to stop brain drain from Africa, so the best talent from leaving our continent. Africa can't grow as a continent if the best people in the continent are constantly trying to leave to go to Europe or go to America or go elsewhere.

00:11:05 Aleksandra King: It's because then who's going to develop the country– want the countries to be building themselves up, and– exactly.

00:11:10 Samuel Brooksworth: And only way that can happen is if the best talent is kept in Africa. You need to give them the best opportunities– then they won't want to leave. Who wants to leave their hometown or home country to go abroad if the opportunities are there where they are? So we aim to bring them opportunities so they can earn more, increase the GDP of every country we're in, in doing so increasing average wages, increasing living standards, eradicating poverty, gaining more opportunities for individuals, paying more, putting more money to economies that weren't there before, helping governments, helping everybody, so everyone is continuing to flourish.

00:11:42 Aleksandra King: I can see how having an objective like that is just so much more interesting and emotionally drawing.

00:11:50 Samuel Brooksworth: If you chase something with passion, you chase something that make impact, everything else will follow.

00:11:55 Aleksandra King: Do you think Lord Sugar is kicking himself? Because he should be looking at something like this and going, well– mhm– it's embarrassing, isn't it?

00:12:04 Samuel Brooksworth: I don't– I don't– I don't even know he exists. I don't know– I don't know.

00:12:07 Aleksandra King: Yeah, that's also a problem. That's also a problem.

00:12:09 Samuel Brooksworth: No, no, no, no, it's– it's– yeah.

00:12:10 Aleksandra King: You know what, he's– well, he missed out, didn't he? Let's be honest.

00:12:15 Samuel Brooksworth: You know what– when I went on to–

00:12:17 Aleksandra King: Or did he? Or– or are you better off?

00:12:19 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah. When I went on to the show, my aim was never win it. That– that was always my thing, which I always discussed. For me, it was just a platform.

00:12:29 Aleksandra King: Interesting.

00:12:30 Samuel Brooksworth: My mummy used to say to me, you could be the greatest preacher in the world, you could be the greatest salesperson in the world, you could be the greatest whatever is in the world– if you don't have a platform, nobody hear your message and nobody will see who you are.

00:12:40 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:12:41 Samuel Brooksworth: So for me, the reason I'm eternally grateful to the show, and–

00:12:44 Aleksandra King: Yeah, it's a good platform, isn't it?

00:12:45 Samuel Brooksworth: The platform it afforded me–

00:12:47 Aleksandra King: I agree.

00:12:47 Samuel Brooksworth: –I couldn't have got anywhere else at that time in my life. So it was great for me. And obviously he's gone on to do extraordinary things in his business career, and he's gone on to work with different entrepreneurs. It probably would have been a mismatch at the time anyway, based on where I was.

00:13:00 Aleksandra King: I don't see it happening. I've seen some of your LinkedIn posts, and there's one for example where you bring the kids into work, and there's all– it's like a nice vibe and everything– that you wouldn't– that probably wouldn't work, let's be clear. Okay, so– so you decided to apply because you wanted this platform, and your sales pitch was that, you know, you have a God-given gift to sell.

00:13:30 Samuel Brooksworth: The funny thing is, I didn't actually apply for the show. My wife did.

00:13:33 Aleksandra King: To disgrace yourself in front of– yeah– the country.

00:13:35 Samuel Brooksworth: I'm good, but– I did know– I'm– it's not an arrogant thing– I knew I'd get picked for that show once I went through the process, which I ended up getting picked. And from there it just kind of went– went upwards, so yeah.

00:13:47 Aleksandra King: When you know, you– you know it. You feel that– that confidence, and you absolutely need it to– to get ahead of all those people. It's– it's the toughest interview you could ever have in your life.

00:13:58 Samuel Brooksworth: Honestly, it was one of the best experiences of my life, only because it showed me– I think that if– put up in very, very difficult situations, and around individuals that I didn't– I wouldn't ever, on a day-to-day basis, be with in the real world–

00:14:18 Aleksandra King: No– yeah.

00:14:19 Samuel Brooksworth: –I'd be fine. And I think you only know the measure of your character until you're put in the most difficult situations. I've seen in business, in working life, when managers or directors are screaming at teams because something's happened, and how people throw people under the bus, how people react. No matter how pressured the situation, they remained the same– and that's what it showed me about myself. That no matter what people do to me on this process–

00:14:45 Aleksandra King: Mhm.

00:14:46 Samuel Brooksworth: –I would never bend or bow to producers, to no Lord Sugar or Lord– and show a different side to me. I'm going to be me. If you like it– I'm going to be my true authentic self.

00:14:56 Aleksandra King: You wrote an article for The Guardian, and you titled it, my time on The Apprentice taught me a lot about Black men in business.

00:15:03 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah. There has always historically been a narrative painted of Black men, and professional Black men, and you see that play out when you go in certain areas, when you walk through certain streets at certain times– how people react to you, how people perceive you, what people will think of you before you've even opened your mouth. And I think that that narrative, especially played through the media, is very powerful. If I say to you now, name three prominent Asian business person, you'll probably name them. Name three prominent Caucasian business person, you could name them. Name three prominent Black business men, you'll probably struggle. And it's– it's simply because opportunities aren't being granted to a lot of Black males and females– who I do think it is hard for Black females to actually break through– break through the glass ceiling. As a Black male, I do feel as though there is– there is a very thick glass ceiling that stops a lot of them breaking through, and you'll see a lot of Black males who, for 10, 20 years– you look through their LinkedIns or look through their experiences– they only ever sales executives. They're never allowed to progress. And when you speak to them– and speak to them– it's never that they're not competent or they're not good enough. They're just not granted opportunities. Now, there are different reasons for that. If you look at management structures and teams–

00:16:09 Aleksandra King: Yeah, which is what I would emphasise on– if you're a leader in a business.

00:16:12 Samuel Brooksworth: It– a lot of it doesn't always necessarily come down to racism. Where this is hindering a lot of Black males is that they're not being able to grow in organisations. So if you're a Black male or you're not growing in an organisation and you want to start a business, when you do eventually start your business, you're setting up your business from very limited knowledge, because then you've never had any real leadership experience, management experience, growing understanding of all of– growing a business at a top level. So how can your business thrive at that level if you've never managed at that level? So then it's stopping so many Black business men from progressing and growing, because they've never had experience even growing corporate organisations. And that's what articles we're speaking on– the opportunities, the lack of opportunities. And even when you look at diversity pay gap reports across different organisations, there's disparity in regards to what Black people are paid in regards to Caucasians doing the same jobs, and the way they're treated, the complaints– it's been happening for decades, from when my dad first came to the UK and his complaints about working– workplaces– up until now. And things are changing, things are getting better as it is to go on, but it has stopped a lot of Black males from progressing and growing. When you have a truly diverse organisation– whether it's from a disability perspective, whether it's from a race perspective, whatever it may be– it allows you to open up the mindset of the people in the business to better serve different and bigger groups. And that's where I do feel as though organisations, even on shows like The Apprentice– that could potentially happen, just so we can see that growth.

00:17:47 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:17:48 Samuel Brooksworth: I think expanding opportunities granted to individuals, as to Black males– which I'm yet to see yet as winners–

00:17:56 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:17:56 Samuel Brooksworth: –in the investment stages of the show.

00:17:59 Aleksandra King: Yeah, I like it. You know, let's– let's be fair and square with everyone, you know, everyone– especially if it's a competition. Let's give everyone the fair chances in life and whatever– it should be a fair playing field, and come on, let's go– who's working the hardest, who's putting in the hours, who's got the passion, who's got the drive, you know? And then, you know, it's running– it's like sprint– you get on the line, you know, running race, and it's all– it's all fair and square.

00:18:20 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah, 100. And even the fairness– even begins from the– especially on shows like The Apprentice, that fairness would even begin from the– the recruiting process. Like you said, they pick people to fit into certain stereotypes, and certain people are picked to fit into the stereotypes, where you find there are so many credible young Black men who could have been picked and brought to the show–

00:18:38 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:18:39 Samuel Brooksworth: –but they aren't, because they don't fit into that– the narrative that's needed.

00:18:43 Aleksandra King: Exactly. So what's your work-life balance like? Do you have a good work-life balance or not really?

00:18:48 Samuel Brooksworth: I like to think I do. I'll have this much time to do this, and I spend this much time with the kids, and I will ensure that I'm structured so that I don't just work 24/7. But they– I was slipping into that–

00:19:04 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:19:04 Samuel Brooksworth: But then I found that I can't keep using excuse, I'm busy, I'm busy, I'm busy. Because if I keep using that excuse as a mindset thing, I will always be busy. Whereas when I started to think, you know what, I can do all these things– I can spend enough time with the girls, I can go on family holidays, I can work and grow and raise a family. I can't grow up in a business environment where we saw the most successful businessmen as guys who were never really family guys. They thought that the woman would be at home with the kids and the family, and you would have to be out doing– and I said, that's not fair, because I've seen my wife run a business, be a lecturer, look after–

00:19:38 Aleksandra King: Like, you look after the kids.

00:19:40 Samuel Brooksworth: She's got her things going on–

00:19:41 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:19:42 Samuel Brooksworth: –and there's two of us. We can both do it.

00:19:44 Aleksandra King: So what do you think you have in your personality that's accelerating success? Like, genuinely, what is it? What is it?

00:19:53 Samuel Brooksworth: I'm– I'm able to work with individuals and help them to grow, and that allows them to take on a lot more than they would have before. So that personality trait that I have has helped me to grow, because I'm then empowering people to do a lot more, which gives me a lot more time.

00:20:12 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:20:12 Samuel Brooksworth: Whereas if I was almost like a micromanager, or I was a bit like– I don't know– all over people, it wouldn't allow me to grow and allow them to grow, and I'd end up being more busy. So that's just a– empathy and allowing people to– understanding people–

00:20:26 Aleksandra King: And being good at sales, let's be honest.

00:20:28 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah.

00:20:28 Aleksandra King: And then– you can't really not be good at sales.

00:20:30 Samuel Brooksworth: But you know what, I think I'm a good sales person because I'm so good with people. People gauge honest people, and if I'm selling you something, I'm talking to you and you can see my eye– I'm a genuine person.

00:20:41 Aleksandra King: Yeah. And because of that– and just the– my values and morals–

00:20:45 Samuel Brooksworth: Exactly– the values and morals. Right, when you're an individual where you have a vision, and you just want to– and you have– and you're authentic, and your heart's pure in what you want to do– I find that when you're trying to set things up at times– and a lot of people will know this– one of the biggest reasons for organisations not failing are co-founder disputes, and it's a huge, huge issue–

00:21:06 Aleksandra King: Huge deal, yeah.

00:21:07 Samuel Brooksworth: And I think one of the early lessons I had in Remoteli especially were the individuals that I brought on to support me in building things. Because you find that if you're building something quite big, the human heart is very difficult to reach– read– and individuals become jealous about you without realising–

00:21:24 Aleksandra King: Ooh.

00:21:24 Samuel Brooksworth: They become– yeah, they can become jealous, they can become bitter, they can become angry. And when you're working with individuals that you don't really see that– all the– jealous of what they're–

00:21:35 Aleksandra King: Another person's perceived success.

00:21:37 Samuel Brooksworth: Let's say for example we set up the company– you're CTO and I'm a CEO, and you're seeing that I'm perceived to be seen as the leading light of something– it can play into someone's psyche. And I've realised that jealousy, I believe, stems from not understanding your true calling. If you understand what you've been called to do, and you understand what you're meant to do as an individual, you can never become jealous of somebody else, because you know what you're doing. When you don't know what you're doing, you find yourself floating all the time. I've seen people that I've helped set up– that I've– I've brought on board to help me set up this business– go away and want to set up their own business doing the same thing, when your dream was always being an actor.

00:22:16 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:22:16 Samuel Brooksworth: So it shows that you don't understand what your true calling is. You're just doing whatever it is so that you can gain perceived success, but then you're not, as an individual, fully understanding what it is that you want to do. And I realised that with the– with the human heart, it is difficult to read. And as a founder– as I'm growing as a founder, and as– as I'm learning more, I'm starting to really understand– I really want to understand people's whys when I'm doing things, and that's helped in these challenges. Because if I understand your why–

00:22:43 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:22:44 Samuel Brooksworth: –and I get what it is you're looking for, I can help lead you and get you to what you're looking for. If we have a discussion from the beginning stage and you cannot tell me your why, it can become difficult, because if something happens and you don't really have a strong why as to why you're doing something, your heart could go in any– any which direction. And as a founder, it's– it's so important that you understand what your why is, and you need people with strong whys.

00:23:04 Aleksandra King: You know, yeah– someone that's competing with you in some ways. And that's– I would call it a type of insecurity. Yeah, it's not finding a calling, but it's also type of just feeling insecure about who they are– not really knowing who they are, but just not feeling comfortable completely with who they are. Because first of all, why would they join with you if they weren't comfortable in the first place? So are you working through anything difficult now?

00:23:27 Samuel Brooksworth: Now– not– there's always challenges in life, but–

00:23:32 Aleksandra King: What's the main challenge now with Remoteli?

00:23:34 Samuel Brooksworth: I think one of the main challenges is, as we're scaling the business, it does become more and more challenging managing more and more diverse people–

00:23:45 Aleksandra King: Mhm.

00:23:45 Samuel Brooksworth: –it– and when I say more diverse people– different– from different walks of life, ages. And as anyone knows, the– the most difficult or challenging thing is managing people.

00:23:54 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:23:56 Samuel Brooksworth: It's a unique challenge, but it's– it's beautiful all the same. When you're managing people, working with different people and seeing their growth through certain areas of their life, seeing them develop, seeing them grow, seeing them change their lives– it's so rewarding, but it's not easy. The same way as when you have a child– in the first two years of a child's life, they're seemingly trying to kill themselves every single day in a new creative way– just to be in a plug, just to be– nuts– and you see that growth is– is worth the journey, but it's difficult all the same. And I think that's what it's like when you're growing a startup, which is our baby, and when you're working with people in that startup, it's going through that process of them becoming almost like– kids to toddlers to infancy. It's pretty tough going through that process. It's challenging but very rewarding. And I do have grey hairs now, I do have sleepless nights, but it's all so rewarding.

00:24:43 Aleksandra King: And for anyone listening who wants to become an entrepreneur and follow, you know, in your footsteps, what– what tips do you have for them? What would you– what would you say?

00:24:54 Samuel Brooksworth: Make sure you keep going with your idea for at least 18 months.

00:24:58 Aleksandra King: Wow, 18 months.

00:25:00 Samuel Brooksworth: 18– and it was very specific with the 18 months– not a year or two years. At least 18 months. Once you go past that 18-month period, you can assess and see whether that idea actually works or not. And don't stop before then, because you will see dips– and don't get too encouraged with any spikes you see. Just keep going, and don't give up before then. After that period, see where you are. And that's why I say to a lot of entrepreneurs– because you find that a lot of times entrepreneurs can either get overly excited at what– what they see in the first three, four, five, six months, or get discouraged by what they see after the first year. And after the first year, if we took that approach, we probably wouldn't have got to where we got to. Yes, we grew and we– we did extraordinarily well, but it wasn't– I– I'm a very ambitious person– I wanted to do more. So– and again, in the first year, where we were looking for funding, we didn't get funding. Then obviously after that, we had those offers come towards us. I could have become discouraged by what I would have known that I received, or the people that came to me not wanting to invest in the idea– different industry experts who messaged me– direct messaged me– telling me– one of them said the idea was chronically flawed. And I'm like, dude, there was no need to even say that. You could have just said, ah, you know, nice.

00:26:10 Aleksandra King: So some– some people are just not–

00:26:13 Samuel Brooksworth: And I always– I always remember that one specifically, because he was an in-quote industry expert. I– I understand– I– I didn't care. It was more so that it got me thinking, what must he say to other people who may– maybe don't have the resilience I have? And how does he approach or speak to these individuals? If you're in this in-quote perceived position, why would you say that?

00:26:38 Aleksandra King: No, no, no, no.

00:26:39 Samuel Brooksworth: And I was like, why would you say that? And it's a case where there was so much that was said and done to us in that first year, where individuals now have come back to me, who apologised, or messaged me, or said, oh, I– I– this about you, that's not true, or I perceive this about you, that's not true. And for me, it's a case where if I'd stopped after the first 12 months, none of this would have been seen. But because we kept going after the first 18 months–

00:27:01 Aleksandra King: You've had all that practice, though– your whole life. You've been rejected, you had to move to these locations, so you were treated a certain way, and you know, you've– you've been– you've been facing with this– it's almost like it's prepared you. It's laid a very good foundation for you to be like, strong now, and you–

00:27:16 Samuel Brooksworth: Exactly.

00:27:17 Aleksandra King: You know, you're like, okay. And your support network too, which is so important– your wife, you know, your dad, your mum– those– your family is– it's truly a blessing to have that. You said on LinkedIn, if it's for you, it won't pass you.

00:27:29 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah.

00:27:30 Aleksandra King: Do you really believe that?

00:27:31 Samuel Brooksworth: I genuinely do. If it's for you, it will not pass you. And I know a lot of people be like, yeah, well, I've had opportunities that I should have had that have passed, because I don't believe in that. But for me, it's a case where if you look at it from a– a really faith-led perspective– or perspective– things– certain opportunities will come to you that in that moment you really want, and then when they do pass you, you're like, oh, why didn't it come, why didn't I get it? And you keep pushing on diligently and with perseverance and hard work, and then you understand why you didn't get an opportunity. There were certain jobs I applied for before I got the Guardian role that I really wanted. I didn't get them, and I was like, why wouldn't I have got that role, why this, why that? If I hadn't have got the Guardian role, it wouldn't have led me into setting up Remoteli. If I hadn't have done certain– some of the roles I did initially, it wouldn't have given an experience in regards to sales.

00:28:21 Aleksandra King: And sometimes you want something and don't realise it's actually not the best– it's not the best for you.

00:28:26 Samuel Brooksworth: Yeah. And then life experiences, or going through– whether it's through struggle, or whether it's through a lack of, or whether it's roles that you don't particularly like, or people you don't particularly like showing you, or managers you don't particularly like– it shows something about yourself that you need to work on. Characteristics you have, you need to work on and hone. Because I believe the environments that you're put in show you who you are, and then once you know who you are, it's up to you to change aspects of yourself to go to another level. If you've worked in an environment where you've seen yourself– you're not a very patient person, and that working environment has shown you that– you then know that in order to get to the next level in your life, you need to become more patient. You can take that as a life lesson to grow–

00:29:05 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:29:06 Samuel Brooksworth: –stay where you are. And I see that the people who are the most successful see that. Like, you know what, I loved that working experience– it was so horrific, but it showed me exactly who I was. I'm taking that lesson to become a better person.

00:29:17 Aleksandra King: I'm with you on that. Do you think people should be allowed to take their kids to work, do you think?

00:29:23 Samuel Brooksworth: We're human beings, and we live in the real world, and I think that a lot of times we– we create this– I don't know– this idea of business, and that's not realistic.

00:29:32 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:29:33 Samuel Brooksworth: We– the pandemic showed us that, though. Some people could not hide away from their kids in the pandemic, and their kids would jump onto video calls or burst into rooms. It would– it showed us that's the real world.

00:29:44 Aleksandra King: And the dog and the cat– everything–

00:29:46 Samuel Brooksworth: Everything could be shown, everything could be exposed, everything could be revealed. And I think, why have we just suddenly taken that away, now that the pandemic is somewhat over, and now we're back in offices, and suddenly, oh, it's back to that level of what is perceived professionalism. Is it, though? Because if you got a mother who is struggling to find childcare on that day, but then your business is going to struggle because she's going to have to stay away from the office so that she has to look after this child– wouldn't it be better if you just let the child come to the workplace, so that she could do the work but at the same time look after the kid? There's certain things that just should be allowed to happen. For me– my son come to the office. He was amazing. He spoke– he spoke– he spoke to– babbled with everybody, was playing and laughing, joking. The girls come in– got to show them what my office actually looks like, because they've never been to Scotland before. So they're like, oh, this is what you've been doing all these years. I'm like, yes, kids, this is real. And the HR– our head of people– bringing her kids in– there are other people who have brought their kids in, and it's– it's beautiful, them doing that, because it shows that we– the whole idea of being a family is a bit touchy in business, because some people say that you can't consider your work people as family, some people say you can. In a startup environment, I would say that at times, certain individuals do become your family. You're building something that's lifelong, and it's changing lives. You're doing something that is revolutionary, and you do end up creating family members.

00:31:10 Aleksandra King: Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come here today and tell us your story, and I know that it's going to inspire people. I know you've– you've been on very interesting journey– you still are on that journey– and we look forward to seeing how it goes. You know, we'll catch up again in a few years and see where we are. Thank you very much.

00:31:28 Samuel Brooksworth: Thank you so much. Thank you.