The Courage to Walk Away and Start Again

Cold open

00:00:00 [Speaker?]: So, I'm speaking to that.

Episode

00:00:12 [Interviewer]: Where did you grow up? Okay, as a warm-up question.

00:00:19 Aleksandra King: I was born in Poland and I grew up in sunny, amazing, beautiful South Africa, and I did all of my school and university and everything there, and then I moved to Europe, and I've been working all over the world since then. We got to South Africa when I was about three and a half years old, though I don't remember the actual plane ride there, but my brothers and sisters thought that we'd be going to a land full of just giraffes and lions roaming around, which was not the case. It was not, but my word, it was a brilliant country to grow up in. Sunny, gorgeous, outdoor lifestyle. Absolute magic. Magic.

00:01:04 [Interviewer]: And how did that shape you, do you think?

00:01:09 Aleksandra King: Growing up in South Africa made me absolutely adore and appreciate nature. So that stayed with me forever. It also brought out, funny enough, an international adventurer side in me, because being in South Africa I felt that we were away from the rest of the world, away from Europe where everything was happening. And I used to remember going to the airport with my dad– he used to have a lot of international guests come and visit us because he was in export and import. And I loved looking at the tags on their suitcases, and they would be arriving from Milan and all these wonderful places, and I thought, my gosh, literally the second I can go, I'm just going to go and travel the world and work everywhere. And that's exactly what I did.

00:01:52 [Interviewer]: So it's like a foundation in nature and grounding–

00:01:55 Aleksandra King: And it's my home. Yes– but also the spirit for discovering the rest of the world. Definitely.

00:02:02 [Interviewer]: Were you in a town, or were you in–

00:02:05 Aleksandra King: Yes. So– we were in a city, in Pretoria. It's a capital. But then when I was older I went to boarding school, and I really wanted to go, surprising to everyone– I wasn't sent there as a punishment. I absolutely loved it. And that was in the Eastern Cape, just surrounded by forests, and it's got the ocean close by, and it just was like the best place to go to school in the whole entire world. And I just saw boarding school as a massive sleepover. It was like a never-ending party, and probably some of the best years of my entire life were spent in that school, and I absolutely loved that. The thing is, when you go to boarding school, because you're doing everything with each other all the time, every single day, so much– you go to school together, you go to sleep at the same time, you brush your teeth together, you go through– everyone's things happen in your life, people pass away and so on– you share all these experiences. So you become family. There was a boys' school as well, which I definitely liked to visit too. But you just make friends with these guys, and the friendships last forever, and we understand each other in a way that only family can. Those bonds will never be broken. I just wanted to say something about my background. I'm the youngest of four kids, and my parents could not be more different. My mom is one of those introverted, hardworking, corporate-ladder-climbing people that is just diligent. She works her hours, she does everything she has to do, she loves the security of a full-time job. Did it extremely well, and just is very focused on: hard work gets you everywhere, come on, routine, let's go. Very disciplined in that way. My father– complete loose cannon, extrovert, complete and utter risk-taker, entrepreneur, roller coaster, no stability whatsoever, and put us, I suppose, on that entrepreneurial roller coaster, because he was always doing this export-import business, which– it would do well, and then it wouldn't do so well, and then it would do well again. So I've seen those sort of two different directions that one's career can take. You can go for more the stable, steady job and have that and be secure, or you can be more risky, but it is a genuine risk and you have to accept that, and you get on a roller coaster which is called entrepreneurship, and when it's good it's really good, and when it's not good it's really bad. So I've had those two options, and I've explored both in my career.

00:04:38 [Interviewer]: Why did you decide to go on The Apprentice?

00:04:41 Aleksandra King: I spent the first part of my career working in billing systems implementations, and I was doing– following my mom's side of things. So be a good student, be a good employee, work really hard and climb up to the absolute top that you possibly can, dedicate yourself to that job and do it really well. And that's exactly what I did. I spent very long hours working for these big telecoms company. I would go wherever they wanted to send me if fitted the travel. Go to Gambia tomorrow, go to Mauritania the next day, off you go to the Cayman Islands, see you later, bye-bye. I was just never ever at home. Always travelling and doing this job for my employer. Then I got pregnant and everything changed. Was I going to go into the middle of Africa and take malaria tablets? Yes or no? Was that going to be my life? No. So I had this period of quiet reflection at home with the kids, thinking, "What am I going to do now?" Because everything that I've known career-wise has changed. Of course, I could work in the office, but that wouldn't quite be right, because my whole job was going to these countries and implementing billing systems. So that just is not going to happen. And if I'm there doing basic things, it will be a bit boring. So I didn't know what to do. And I started thinking about entrepreneurship. And I was watching The Apprentice and talking to my husband about how funny it would be to go on the show. The next day, my daughter wakes up after watching this episode and says, "Mom, I had a dream you were on The Apprentice." I said, "Are you serious?" She goes, "Yes, I had a dream you were on there." So I said to my husband, "Is that a sign?" He goes, "Yeah, definitely a sign." So I thought, all right, let's apply. So I went online, saw the application form, and, joking around, filled this thing out, not thinking it would lead anywhere at all. But it did, and they called me back. And the interview process then started, which lasts many months. And the more I got into that process, the more it started to interest me and lure me in. And I saw it as a challenge on this entrepreneurial side that my dad always had, because I knew instinctively that I could sell. That's one thing I can do– I can sell. And I knew that because I did all these little jobs as a student, and I had to work in an alcohol shop and I had to be an entertainer for kids, and I knew that I could work a crowd and I could convince people. So I thought, actually, I'm getting really into this. There's something tasty about this. But there was this other side of me going, "Oh, no. Don't go near the entrepreneurial beast, because it comes with risks and a roller coaster life and stress." But I thought, "No, shush, other voice. I'm going to go for it." And I really enjoyed the whole competitive side of it. I loved going through the interview process. I loved every single task they threw at me. It was quite easy for me in many ways. So I thought I actually stand a chance of winning this thing, because the interview process is so easy. And I swam through that process and got in. However– how much do you want me to go on with?

00:07:52 [Interviewer]: Yeah. Might as well record the full story.

00:07:54 Aleksandra King: Yeah, so I went through the interview. I loved the interview process. Found it absolutely fascinating. I didn't mind playing a role of being this tough cookie and eliminating people and going, "Oh, you don't really know what you're doing." And you play up to what they expect of you. I knew– I'm a producer myself now, so I know what's expected. So I brought it to the table, whatever they wanted, went through the stages, loved that challenge, got in. At the time when I got in onto this show, we were moving house from North London. My husband was running his own company, and we had three little children below the age of 10, and they needed to get into schools. We needed to find a house. It was all– there was some issues with the sale of our house. There was a lot going on. It was the worst timing in the whole world, let's put it that way. And I really didn't want to go anymore. It didn't suit me anymore to go in, because I thought, I don't really have time for this– there are far more important things to do. However, I had gone to all that trouble, was already in, and I thought, okay. So I went in, and yeah, going in was fascinating. Yeah, both fascinating and disturbing, I would say. Fascinating because you're now living in a world that's a non-world. It's not real. The boardroom is a place that's a made-up place with sheets on the walls and things. It's not a real place. Time– you lose concept of time. Your watch is taken away, and you're told where to go and when to go, and you drift in this alternate reality of someone else is deciding your schedule. You're completely controlled by them, and you go to these places that are non-places. You speak to people that aren't really real, in situations that aren't that real, but they also are at the same time, because you'll be selling in a shop that's a real shop, but there's all these cameras around you. It had to be set up, and you had to wait five hours before you could do that. And then you're also not allowed to talk to each other, the candidates, because you might say something that will affect the show, and then your phone is taken away and you can't communicate with your family, and all these sort of things. And I just– it's strange in that way, to be submerged into this world. So it's a fascinating new world that one could never be prepared for, put it that way. So that's interesting. And then it's also disturbing, because I touched on some of the things– that you can't control where you go and what time. You can't go outside the house, for example– where, you say, you can't go for a walk? You're just simply not allowed to. You can't talk to everyone. You're simply not allowed to. Can't eat when you want to eat, because there is no food or you get it much later. You can't wake up when you want to wake up. You're told when to go to bed, which might be 2:00, 3:00. You're woken up 5:00, the cameras come in. So your whole concept and control mechanism goes out the window, which I did find very difficult. I didn't like someone else controlling everything about my schedule. And I think I also found that disturbing because I'm the sort of person– I have to eat regularly. I just have a very high metabolism, and I have to eat, or my blood sugar drops and I become sluggish, and if I get stressed then I don't eat. So I actually went into this vicious cycle, of– because I didn't get food regularly. Would go a whole day– like, nothing until 11:30, and then here's a sandwich. I– like, some people can do that. I really can't do that. Like, I just can't. I don't know why. It's just my body is that way. So then by the time that food comes, then I don't want to eat it. So then a whole day goes by and I've not eaten. And then the morning comes and we have to rush out the house at 5:00 a.m., and I've had two or three hours' sleep, because I can't sleep, because I'm more stressed than everyone else, 'cause I'm just one of those light sleepers. So if we have those few hours, everyone else is sleeping and I'm listening in going, "Oh, are those the camera guys by the door?" 'cause I'm worrying if they're there. So I'm just an overthinker, over-worrier, which– I'm sure people listening can relate. There are just some people that are more– they need a quiet place to sleep and they have to eat regular meals, and I'm just one of those people. I'm very sorry. So I found that kind of thing quite disturbing, and then hard on my body physically. I found it physically difficult, because in the morning when breakfast came, I would literally gag. I did not want to eat the food. So it was just one of those vicious cycles of not wanting to eat. However, you get on with things, you progress. The tasks were going pretty well. I sold in every single task, either top seller or second top. So in terms of the work that was in front of me– yeah, I can do that. Was I loving every minute of it? No. I was worrying about what's happening back home. How's my husband coping? What are we gonna do about the schools? What am I doing in this fake boardroom when I need to put them into school? So I had that drawing my attention away, and then I'm obviously not sleeping, I'm not eating.

00:13:12 [Interviewer]: I suppose the big question is– what is Lord Sugar like?

00:13:16 Aleksandra King: Yeah. So Lord Sugar is– he's another version of my own dad. They are basically the same personality. So I've seen his type. I know his– I know that whole strict– oh, dude, my dad is exactly the same– soft interior. I know he's got a soft interior and he's probably really nice, but when it comes to business ethic, he's like my dad, which is: you basically will be ground down to the ground to do something. And it doesn't matter if it takes you 16 hours and you've not eaten for five. It doesn't matter. You have to do that. That's business. Business comes first. Business is everything. Business is your god. The money you make comes first, because it's like– there's this thing that entrepreneurs get– they get very hungry for the money– because that's a business, it's there to make profit, so that profit becomes everything– everything. And he was all about that, and Lord Sugar is all about that, and I'm not at all about that. I love the idea of the challenge and I love the idea of selling, but I don't love the idea of being controlled by money or anyone else. And he obviously has to play a certain character, but it just started to grate at me.

00:14:32 [Interviewer]: Is he around a lot on set?

00:14:34 Aleksandra King: He's never around on set. He's only in the boardroom.

00:14:38 [Interviewer]: So, yes. So you've got the other– whoever the other two are that circle him around– Claude and–

00:14:44 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:14:45 [Interviewer]: So, you walked before the end. Why did you decide to walk, and at what moment did you decide to walk?

00:14:52 Aleksandra King: Yeah. So I was going through all the tasks. I was doing pretty well. So no one really knew what was going on in my mind. But very early on, I started to already have doubts about being in there. Think I'm wasting my time. This isn't real. I shouldn't be here. I'm not even enjoying it. Not sleeping very well, not eating very well. I don't like these high-stress situations, especially when it's fake– it's a TV thing. I've been in very high-stress situations where I've had to implement a billing system on a deadline, didn't know what I was doing, in the middle of the Gambian jungle, all pressure was on me. But that's different. You stick with that, you do it, and then you go home. But this was playing, and it was TV, and it wasn't something important enough– dare I say that– for me personally to endure that. So this started to already be messing with my head, even though I was doing these tasks. And I let it out to the production team that I'm thinking about this, but– "Oh no, don't do that, don't do that, don't do that." They were talking me out of this a lot, and I was going, I think I'm going to walk now, I'm going to do that. And I started to give them little hints. "I'm like, no, don't do that, don't do that, don't do that." And then– it just– on the morning of one of the tasks, we were about to sit down and go through the whole thing and do it all, and I just thought, I'm just being controlled all the time. I need to get my control back of myself, if I'm not comfortable in the situation and it's not for me. Why don't I just take control and say, actually, I don't like the process? Why don't I do that? I thought– in my own head I was like, don't do that, don't do it, there are millions of people watching you, do not do it. And I thought, no– but other bit of me arguing– you have to go with what you believe in your heart, and your health is suffering from this. It's not quite right for your personality type. Let others go that love this sort of environment. So as soon as that thought came in, that I can actually make this decision and go home now– I was like– so I just did it, in the middle of the– I think it was more a meeting to discuss the task, and I did it there. I wasn't going to wait till later, the next day. I just decided– I made that connection– I can actually go home just now. Which is not true, because after I left, I had to refilm the exit four times. They begged me. They ran after me saying, "Aleksandra, come back, please. We need to film it." I was like, "Oh, seriously." But I did them the courtesy. I came back and I did it. I did the "You're fired" as well. So I thought– 'cause I don't hate The Apprentice. I still like the whole thing. I would do it all again– I love the whole thing. It's just that I think what I don't like about it is the deliberate stressful thing that, I guess, makes good TV, but it's also unnecessary in today's day and age. And I didn't like it being done to me. So– walked.

00:17:39 [Interviewer]: Did you get any help from them afterwards, as in psychological help? There's been some TV shows around that.

00:17:46 Aleksandra King: Yeah. So that's a very interesting question. After I left, it was traumatic for me, because I had to endure people saying, you quit, you did this, you did that. It was a really difficult thing for me to overcome, especially because I have a professional career. I have to go back into the business workplace. I don't want people thinking, "Oh, you're going to walk off"– like, I won't, I promise you. But it's such a horrible thing to deal with. And no, I didn't get any support in the form of The Apprentice, but I did, thank God, in the form of my family and my husband, who's my absolute rock and soulmate, and my kids. Just being back with them, that really helped me. But I know many candidates that have suffered, and they've had to go and get their own help. They've had to see therapists. They've had very bad spirals from what's happened to them. Obviously also the trolling, but just the sheer trauma from The Apprentice– where, when you're going on the show, they actually contact your doctors to warn your surgery that you will be put under massive amount of stress, in all ways. So I didn't quite understand what that meant until I got on there. And people react in different ways.

00:18:55 [Interviewer]: I guess you wouldn't do it again.

00:18:57 Aleksandra King: I would.

00:18:57 [Interviewer]: You would?

00:18:58 Aleksandra King: I would do it again, because when would I ever have a learning experience of this magnitude? I'm a better person going through something that difficult, that public. It obviously propelled me into the whole media and comms fields, which I love. I love the whole TV side of it– like I'm saying, the cameras and everything– it's interesting for me. Production, video– I do that now. I find that all fascinating. I love it. So it was a huge learning experience, and it's given me confidence that, like, I can go into the ultimate interview and pass, and if I wanted to stay, I could have stayed. But it's also taught me my weak side– that I am a person that I do have to sleep. I do have to eat on time, as my– stress affects me, and I'm not like an invincible Hulk that's walking around. I'm not a superhuman. We're all human, and I think it's given me a deep respect for the balance in life.

00:20:01 [Interviewer]: How do you define success in the ever-evolving landscape of marketing and business, particularly considering the importance of mental health and pushing boundaries?

00:20:12 Aleksandra King: So, success– you typically think, how much– how rich are you, how much are you making? Like, that's how we– in most people's minds. I think it is changing now. I think it is: how happy are you? Because obviously we all know someone that's wealthy that isn't that happy, and that's absolutely true. Life is so short, and I wouldn't swap my life with people that are wealthier than me. I wouldn't– I just wouldn't, because I'm happy with my life. And for me, if you're happy with what you're doing, you're enjoying yourself, ultimately– are you enjoying what you do? Do you like where you are in your life? That's a massive success. Doesn't matter what you're doing. Doesn't matter how rich you are. I'm going to be interviewing a few other people on this– on the Beyond the Boardroom podcast. And some of them are very successful in terms of financials, but it– that is never what I'm looking for, at the financials, unless that's your only goal in life. I've always measured success, initially, in the amount that I would push myself at work. I need to perform better than anyone else in the office. I need to work longer hours. I need to work harder. I need to be of more value to the clients, because I was in consulting. And I measured my success on the amount of, basically, graft– hard grafting that I was doing. Then, on the entrepreneurial side, I started to measure– how much am I making this year? How much am I making the next year? Is that graph going up? How many people am I hiring? Is it enough? Is it– and now, where I am, it's like: how much balance do I have? So yes, I'm working. I'm going to go see my client and I'm going to dedicate fabulous hours to this client. That client, they'll get my time. But can I also make time to go for a walk with my dog? And can I– is there enough time to hang out with my kids, my family, my husband? Because if there isn't, that's not success to me. Something's out of balance. If you look at Steve Jobs, and you think, is he success– was Steve Jobs successful? He gave his life to Apple. But you think, could he have been more successful by just balancing– maybe, Steve Jobs, focus on your diet? Did you eat today before you run off to that office– hang on a minute, have you slept? Did you have breakfast? Eat that breakfast. Now go off and do a couple of hours, and then, by the way, go for a little walk to de-stress. He might still be here with us. Lots of ways to look at things.

00:22:54 [Interviewer]: Can you recall a pivotal moment in your career where your definition of success fundamentally changed, perhaps involving a shift towards prioritising mental health and personal growth?

00:23:06 Aleksandra King: So the shift in my life where everything changed was The Apprentice– the moment where I realised that I can't abuse my body in that way, and that my body has certain needs that maybe are different to the next person. It's hard to accept that. But they can sleep– how come they can sleep and I can't sleep? What's wrong with me? But listen, they can sleep. They can sleep through snoring. There were girls, and they were snoring. I can't do it. I just can't sleep through snoring. But some people can, though. They just sleep differently. They had appetite. I didn't. It's– I had to accept that I need to be kinder to myself. If I'm going to perform and be successful in all these areas– as a really good mom, as a brilliant wife, a brilliant career person, also sports person, because I love sports– if I'm going to excel at these things, I better be nice to my body and give it all the nutrition it needs, the sleep, and not be too stressed.

00:24:08 [Interviewer]: [start of question cut in captions] World of marketing– how do you personally measure success beyond traditional metrics like revenue and profit, especially in terms of fostering a healthy work-life balance and mental resilience?

00:24:20 Aleksandra King: So I'm selective about the clients that I work with. I want to offer the absolute best service. So to measure success, really, for me, is very simple. Are my clients happy with the service I'm offering? Are they smiling when they see me? Are the meetings pleasant? It's the feeling that you get, and you know when that relationship is good, and you know when they see value in you and when it's working. And I love that– that emotion that I get when my client's happy is the best thing. It's the best feeling. It means more to me than what they pay. It means more, because even if they were paying and they were upset with me, that would deeply affect me– deeply. I want to offer that service, and I want to absolutely make sure that they've got everything they need and that relationship is working and we're both happy. It's about happiness.

00:25:19 [Interviewer]: Drawing from your experience as a former BBC Apprentice candidate, what lessons have you learned about success that you apply to your current endeavours?

00:25:27 Aleksandra King: What I've started to do, and I've become pretty good at it, pretty disciplined at it, is keeping a schedule and sticking to that schedule. So I know what I want to accomplish in a day, and what I need to accomplish in that day, and I schedule it. I put things in the calendar. I book that meeting with that person, organise whatever it is– that training session– make sure you've put in that slot to do research for your clients– whatever it is, I schedule it, I time it, and there's a system going. So those things get done, and then that consistency continues, and then you formed habits, and you are basically engineering, programming your life in a way that makes you happy and gives you all those things. Do I want to be fit and strong? Yes. Do I want good nutrition? Yes. Do I want happy clients? Yes. Do I want happy kids? Yes. So all of those things need to be planned. They really do. It sounds very regimented, but if you don't plan it, you will waste your time anyway, and it will go.

00:26:38 [Interviewer]: How do you balance achieving personal success with contributing to the success of the teams or organisations you're involved with?

00:26:46 Aleksandra King: Every person that I work with is carefully selected, hand-picked. We go through process of several interviews, and then we start to work together. And similar to my friends in boarding school, where you have that bond, you get really close to the people that you work with, and a trust forms, bond forms, and just– I want to make sure that my clients are happy and the relationship is really good. It's really important to me that the team that I work with are happy, that they like what they're doing, that they're also having fun, because if they're not motivated, they don't want to do it. It's just never going to work. So, luckily, the people that work with me love what they do, and we also– the personalities get along. We enjoy working together. It's just a good atmosphere, and we want to get the job done, and we know what we're doing, and we trust each other professionally. We trust each other's advice and so on. So it's very much a collaboration, and it just works.

00:27:47 [Interviewer]: As someone who has pursued both traditional and alternative paths to success, what advice would you offer aspiring marketers about defining success?

00:27:59 Aleksandra King: So the advice that I would give to anyone, about anything they do in their life, full stop– with professional, business life, whatever it is– is that you've got to be brave enough to do what your gut says is right, to trust that voice within you, that instinct. So if you, for example, want something really badly– let's say an easy analogy– let's say you see someone across the room and you think, "Oh, I really want to talk to that person. That is exactly my type. They got everything that I like. I'm really scared. I don't want to do it." But I think that– wow– that– my advice: if you ever feel something's pulling you, go. Absolutely go. At the same time, if you feel a repellent and you feel the ick– professionally, personally– cut that cord.

00:29:02 [Interviewer]: What strategies do you employ to stay motivated and focused on your goals, particularly when faced with setbacks or challenges?

00:29:11 Aleksandra King: The tactics I now employ have changed than what I used to. So I am now very much focused on health and well-being. And I don't mean that in the fluffy kind of, like, well-being on social media– it's just been overused. But it is genuinely: are you getting enough iron? Like, actually– have a blood test, measure your storage levels. Are you getting enough vitamin D? Because that can make you feel really rotten. You can get autoimmune disease, you can get a whole lot of nasty things. Are you sleeping? And is your sleep hygiene good– like, deep, uninterrupted sleep? Are you relaxing? Because if you find that mind going a bit too– it's disturbing you, you're waking up at night, you're anxious, whatever. So those sort of basic things I've gone back to, and I make sure that those are right before I try to do anything else, and I make sure they're right for myself and my family.

00:30:09 [Interviewer]: Lastly, reflecting on your journey, what do you consider to be your most significant achievement?

00:30:15 Aleksandra King: Gosh, I've had three quite big challenges in my life. The first was– I got a tropical disease when I lived in South Africa, called bilharzia. And it sounds really gross, but it's like these snails that live in the soil, and I went water skiing with a bunch of my friends, and when I got off the boat– I jumped off the boat into this mud, and I remember seeing the mud squish between my toes. It was really gross. But I didn't know that at that moment, in that mud, lived these horrible snails, and they go in and they then multiply in your body, and they start to attack your body. So I then started to lose weight– this was at uni– and become really– and my mom was abroad. I was living in a student residence, and when she saw me, I was basically like skeletal– like 49 kgs or something. She was like, there's something very wrong with you. And I was really struggling to study. I was doing my university finals, and I knew that if I didn't make it, my mom was like, "You will go and work with your dad if you fail this degree." So I was like, "There is no way I'm working with dad." So I was, like, dying to pass this degree. And then eventually they did the blood test. They were like, "Listen, she needs to take this [unclear: praziquantel?], these tablets. It's like poison, basically, but she needs to take it now. She can die from this snail stuff, but she also can't take them if she's studying, because it's going to ruin her concentration." So I had to go through those final exams in my degree on whatever I had left in my body. So that was– that was so hard. I was lying down like that and putting the energy powder on my tongue and just writing, and that's how I wrote my exams. But I passed that. I passed. I got everything. I did well. I thought, right, if I can do that, could do anything. Took the tablets. My energy was like Popeye. Felt really good. Overcame that. So I thought, right, now that's a really good thing– like, you can overcome it, you can push your body. And then I went into the Gambian jungle, and I was overwhelmed, because I didn't really have the training that I needed to do the thing that I had to do. But I had to do it. There was no sorry– you've got to implement the billing system for the country. Oh, you don't know? That's not anyone's problem but yours. So you have to learn to piece things together like a puzzle, and you have to go back to books, and you have to phone people and communicate and analyse and do that. And when I accomplished that, I thought that was really good. Obviously The Apprentice was difficult, I suppose, as well, in many ways– overcoming that was hard for me, and especially because it did affect my health, and it's like– also being someone that's always been very healthy and, like, sports-minded and that– I've had to realise as well that, listen, you're not an invincible person. You have to work with your health, and it might not be perfect or whatever, but you've got to work with what you've got, and that's your lot, that's what you've been dealt, and you now have to take that and make the most of it. So I suppose those are my challenges so far, amongst other things.

00:33:22 [Interviewer]: But in terms of professional Aleksandra– where can people contact you to find out more about you?

00:33:28 Aleksandra King: So I'm actually on Instagram, at king.aleksandra, and I am on Twitter as well. I'm on the usual places, and Aleksandra King website, where you'll find information about my agency, the podcast coming out, which is Beyond the Boardroom, which is going to explore the real person behind these TV personalities that you see– like, what makes them tick, really– not the pretend bravado and how much do you earn, but, like, actually, what's your mindset when you're going to go for something big in your life, like a huge interview, or you decide you want to go for The Apprentice– like, what gives you that confidence in your mind? What takes you from fear, and going, oh no, I couldn't do that, to doing it? What is the step in your head? So I undergo, like, a thing of– my mom's always said to me: everything's made for people. Everything's made for people. The jobs are created by people. If that person can do it, you can do it. Nothing is so out of your reach. Like, even if you wanted to become, like, a brain surgeon or something difficult, you'd have to go– but it's possible. It's possible, if you really wanted to go down that route. And that's made me think, if I decide to do something, then I could probably make it happen if I put enough energy and time into it. So I've got that sort of mindset, that nothing's really off bounds. Nothing's out of scope. If I want it, I can get it. And I have that genuine belief in putting energy into things and getting a result once you put it in. You can see with fitness and your own body, and that– you put in the work and the consistency, you get a result. So that's–