Resilience and Authenticity in the Face of Pressure | Shahin Hassan

Cold open

00:00:00 Aleksandra King: Shahin Hassan– another Apprentice candidate. Listen, I tried to dig up dirt on the guy, okay? I tried to dig up gossip, controversies, all of that stuff. Nothing. So I thought, I'm not interviewing him, because there's no– you know. If you want someone to rub off you in the right way– values, hard work, hard grafter, actually brilliant entrepreneur, ridiculously successful at what he does– you've got to tune in and meet probably one of the most normal, successful and wonderful Apprentice candidates ever.

Interview

00:00:40 Aleksandra King: Shahin, welcome to BEYOND– the boardroom podcast.

00:00:42 Shahin Hassan: Thank you.

00:00:43 Aleksandra King: No need to be nervous.

00:00:45 Shahin Hassan: Yeah.

00:00:45 Aleksandra King: I promise– I promise I don't bite. This is just easy. It's about your life, it's about your experience in The Apprentice, so I'm not asking anything terribly controversial. And also, out of the Apprentice candidates, you're not one of the ones that have something– shall I say– dark, or secretive, or very controversial, or anything like that. You are a lovely, hardworking person. Yes, you're on the show and everything, but you're a really nice guy, and it's difficult to find dirt on you. So there– to anyone thinking that all Apprentice contestants are crazy, mad, controversial people, okay– here is someone who's not that. You're just a lovely guy.

00:01:32 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, I guess you could say that, yeah.

00:01:34 Aleksandra King: You are. You're hardworking, you're from a good home– we're going to get to it. But let's start with The Apprentice. What did you think about it?

00:01:42 Shahin Hassan: It was an amazing experience, it really was. Obviously it's surreal getting on to it as well. The whole selection process was quite challenging– it was quite tough, quite demanding as well– and then actually making it on the show was absolutely surreal. When you see it from the outside you think, do you know what, this process should be straightforward, you know what– how difficult can it be? But when you're on the other side of the fence you realise how tough it actually is. And I was pretty naive in thinking that it was going to be a straightforward process and I'll probably be one of the strongest candidates there, but actually you realise you're not really in control of anything, and that probably played a big part in why it was so challenging and so tough.

00:02:27 Aleksandra King: Is that the most difficult thing, then, for you– the fact that you were not in control of your– what is it, of your brand, of your day? What was it?

00:02:34 Shahin Hassan: It's not easy filming something like The Apprentice when you've got so many characters, so many contestants–

00:02:41 Aleksandra King: Are you saying the contestants were difficult?

00:02:44 Shahin Hassan: You've got a variety of people, personalities– and just recording the show as well takes a lot of effort, a lot of people from the production side– you can imagine it's not easy trying to do all that. But also, in terms of the production and what they want to portray to the audience as well, takes a bit of control over what you say, what you do, etc.

00:03:05 Aleksandra King: Yeah– all of that. You're free to say whatever you want, but how it's edited in the end is– it stands for– yeah. But you don't know that when you're on it, do you? Of course not– you have no idea how they're editing.

00:03:14 Shahin Hassan: No, you don't– but you can see how they want to steer you, if you're on it–

00:03:19 Aleksandra King: Absolutely.

00:03:19 Shahin Hassan: And intelligent enough– then you know how they're probing you and what they want to get from you. But yeah, I suppose losing control of your day, how you manage your day– that is quite difficult. I found that difficult. Not knowing anything– what's coming throughout the day, not knowing when you're going to eat, not knowing how long you have to wait in a room for– just that loss of control. It's quite a challenge, I think.

00:03:41 Aleksandra King: I agree. You're not allowed to take your mobile phone with you, so you're blocked off from the outside world– you're in this little bubble, and you're chaperoned everywhere.

00:03:51 Shahin Hassan: So you really can't say anything, or even talk about the task, even when you're off camera as well. All those things made it a lot more difficult– you don't have access to information or anything like that.

00:04:02 Aleksandra King: For those that didn't watch your episode, sum it up nicely for us. What happened to you? When did you go out? How'd you get fired? What happened to you?

00:04:08 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, so the first task was– it was a selling task, and we went to South Africa, and the task was to sell tour tickets. And yeah, it was unfortunately– a week one which I had to– I was fired in, yeah.

00:04:23 Aleksandra King: Why were you fired?

00:04:25 Shahin Hassan: Because I didn't make enough sales, and that's–

00:04:27 Aleksandra King: What– did you really not, or was it edited like that?

00:04:29 Shahin Hassan: I did make sales, but it wasn't enough. And yeah, I guess it was edited that way as well.

00:04:34 Aleksandra King: Were you nice– too nice– in the boardroom, to people?

00:04:36 Shahin Hassan: Do you know what, in the boardroom I think I was– I think I had no other choice but to fight my corner. But maybe during the task I could have been a bit more aggressive, which I probably didn't do, and maybe I was playing it safe as well, which wasn't the right tactic at that time, because everyone's looking to throw someone under the bus from the second–

00:04:56 Aleksandra King: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:04:56 Shahin Hassan: –second you're in there. So I think that's what happened, yeah.

00:05:00 Aleksandra King: Yeah– oh, too much of a Mr Nice Guy, I think, and too honest. How did it feel being fired?

00:05:06 Shahin Hassan: I was devastated, really devastated, because I genuinely thought I was a really strong candidate.

00:05:11 Aleksandra King: And you thinking– were you like– completely evil?

00:05:14 Shahin Hassan: Do you know what, yeah– towards right at the end, when I thought, you know what, do I have an argument to stay in? And I saw Lord Sugar looking at me, and I knew– you know what– I just had a bad feeling: he's going to let me go now. And he did. But I was genuinely disappointed, to be honest.

00:05:31 Aleksandra King: Just 'cause you're just a nice, sensible person, you know– you weren't an aggressive shark in there.

00:05:37 Shahin Hassan: That's– no, there were some really loud characters, and their personalities really shone through. And you know, when you're trying to be authentic and just being yourself– sometimes you've got to step outside the box, go all out, and maybe I didn't do that.

00:05:50 Aleksandra King: You know what the thing is about some of the Apprentice personalities– so when you get stuck in that house with them, and you have all these big characters– obviously been selecting people for the big personalities– and then you're in that house. Did you not find that it just sucks the living life out of you, to be around such– I would consider myself quite a big personality, but I was, like, around these people– they just siphoned the energy out of me. I just thought, oh my gosh– I just– yeah, I just didn't understand where they got the energy from.

00:06:20 Shahin Hassan: Honestly, you know, I like my own time as well. You don't have any of your own time–

00:06:24 Aleksandra King: You don't have any of your own time.

00:06:25 Shahin Hassan: You're always together, and yeah, I just didn't understand where they got the energy from. It was just so much energy.

00:06:31 Aleksandra King: Like– correct. Now that you've gone through it, has it changed your view of, let's say, Lord Sugar, or the whole process itself?

00:06:37 Shahin Hassan: You know what, now that I've been through it, you see what it's really like from the other side. Obviously I have a huge amount of respect for how it's produced, how they select the candidates, etc., but I feel like it's done and dusted now, and I've moved on from that time in my life. But yeah, from time to time I still watch it– still a huge fan of it. But I think over the years the format's changed, the way it's edited. Obviously now that I've been on the other side, you know what it's really like– what it's really like. So I guess I take it with a pinch of salt now, that actually it's–

00:07:13 Aleksandra King: Okay, so tell me more about how it's edited.

00:07:16 Shahin Hassan: You may do a task or say a certain thing– they can edit it in the way they see fit, best for the audience, to capture the audience's reactions. And obviously it's a reality TV show– they need to increase ratings, etc.– so they do need those big personalities. So yeah, I do feel like it's now become more of a game show, rather than, say, a business show.

00:07:38 Aleksandra King: It's become less of a business show over time, you'd say?

00:07:41 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, over time I would say so. And also the tasks are quite repetitive now. I think there's a formula which they've used for so many years now, and that's quite predictable as well. With those things in mind, yeah, I would say they know how to edit it to make it best for the audience.

00:07:59 Aleksandra King: Yeah. You can see how it becomes difficult for some candidates, if they've been made to look a really bad way. You didn't have that– did it impact your career at all?

00:08:08 Shahin Hassan: No–

00:08:08 Aleksandra King: Negative?

00:08:09 Shahin Hassan: Yeah– no, not necessarily. Luckily I came out unscathed. In all honesty, my personality is more or less aligned to how they portrayed me.

00:08:18 Aleksandra King: What is it that you're doing now? What's your job?

00:08:20 Shahin Hassan: So I do multiple things. I'm a consultant by profession, in engineering, so I do consultancy work; I buy and sell cars; and I invest in property.

00:08:30 Aleksandra King: So the buying and selling cars– is that a side hustle?

00:08:32 Shahin Hassan: They're all side hustles. My main– engineering–

00:08:35 Aleksandra King: Is your main–

00:08:35 Shahin Hassan: Engineering is my main profession, and it's my bread and butter, and I've been working in that field for the past 20 years. But I've always had a side hustle, whether it's selling t-shirts, printing t-shirts, working in the family business, or buying and selling cars, or investing in property.

00:08:51 Aleksandra King: Entrepreneurship– like, I can see why you wanted to go, yeah.

00:08:54 Shahin Hassan: Yeah. It's not so much– not really about the making the profit, but just doing something that you really like, and creating value out of something, is what I like. It's the process of doing something like that really makes it interesting.

00:09:08 Aleksandra King: Okay, so I was just wondering how– if you're portrayed as not being able to sell, and then your main job is sales– how that would impact. Because that would be quite something. Whereas a side hustle– it almost would help you, wouldn't it? But if it's a very serious corporate sales role, that might be difficult.

00:09:25 Shahin Hassan: Exactly. This is the kind of thing which– on The Apprentice, the way they portrayed me doesn't really align to what I do, and I'm quite successful in what I do. And also, in The Apprentice there are different types of selling as well– this was, like, on-the-street selling. I still managed to sell, but the–

00:09:43 Aleksandra King: Marketing.

00:09:44 Shahin Hassan: Exactly– and that's not really my style, but I managed to do some sales. But it's not what they wanted to show on the screen.

00:09:51 Aleksandra King: It is about sales– inventors, you will– if you are not selling, you're gone.

00:09:55 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, it's very difficult to come out of that, if your stats are low.

00:10:00 Aleksandra King: If you want to– just for anyone wanting to go on– if you want to remain in there, you've got to be– you have got– you have to be absolutely, like– no matter what happens: excuse me, at least I'm selling– what are you doing?

00:10:12 Shahin Hassan: Exactly, exactly. Yeah, definitely.

00:10:14 Aleksandra King: But you were lucky to not have trolling– that's quite a bad thing. Or did you have a bit?

00:10:18 Shahin Hassan: Do you know what, I didn't have that much, to be honest.

00:10:20 Aleksandra King: And after the show, did you have the trolling? What did they say to you?

00:10:23 Shahin Hassan: Some were like, how did you make it onto the show? You couldn't sell. But then there were others who were quite, like, disappointed– the fact that I went out in the first week– because they were really aspiring young entrepreneurs who really wanted to see me go. There were some fans who were quite disappointed, yeah. You respond to them saying, I'm really sorry, I tried my best– and yeah.

00:10:46 Aleksandra King: So do you feel like a reality TV star? You feel like you've gone to that club now– you've been on reality TV. Do you feel reality-TV-ish, or not? You went out quite soon, but still.

00:10:58 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, it's a big show. It has had a huge impact on my life, in all honesty. I've had lots of opportunities, which was great. Something that really came to me, which I was quite taken aback– was the amount of people who wanted me to talk to younger people– go to schools– invitations– schools, colleges. That was really humbling, and it was a great honour, to be honest. So that was the positive thing that came out. But I don't consider myself as a reality TV star or anything like that.

00:11:26 Aleksandra King: Reality TV is quite a label.

00:11:28 Shahin Hassan: It is a label, yeah.

00:11:29 Aleksandra King: Yeah. When you do meet people who find out you are on it, they think you are one. It's a difficult one, isn't it, to say– 'cause you're trying to remain serious and corporate and things. But then you can look at Trump.

00:11:42 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, he's probably broken that ceiling for the reality TV stars.

00:11:47 Aleksandra King: You can– yeah– whether you like him or not, he's broken it. So I suppose he can– the sort of, maybe, the looking down on it, or saying, oh, it's a little reality– okay, you try get on it then. Go on any one of the shows, even Big Brother– please, do audition, and let's see if your personality will see you through. Come on, go on, let's see. It's not easy, isn't it?

00:12:07 Shahin Hassan: It's not easy. And the one thing I say to people– and even I remind myself– is to always stay authentic. Be honest with yourself, don't lie, because people can see through all that. Don't create a fake persona as well– just be yourself. And that– that's–

00:12:23 Aleksandra King: Because also they're recruiting for personality, and they've seen it all– so if you're being fake, they know.

00:12:27 Shahin Hassan: They know the fake, exactly. You've got to be comfortable and unashamedly yourself.

00:12:32 Aleksandra King: And if you don't like your personality, don't apply, because they– your personality is going to be magnified tenfold. They love– if you're a nerdy, they'll really work on that nerdy; if you're very nice, they'll work on the nice; if you're very serious, they'll work on it, isn't it– they magnify, because they need to have those boxes. Doesn't matter which show you're on– everyone's got this sort of thing, don't they?

00:12:53 Shahin Hassan: Yeah.

00:12:53 Aleksandra King: But what did it mean for you to represent your Bangladeshi background on such a massive platform?

00:12:59 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, that was a huge honour, it was. I didn't realise at the time how much– how many people are actually watching, and I was taken quite aback on that front. But it was quite humbling– a real honour. Lots of people reached out to me who I really didn't know– and I wasn't on social media or anything like that as well– I didn't realise how big that community really was. But yeah, it was really good, really nice, and yeah, I had lots of opportunities from that, to be honest.

00:13:27 Aleksandra King: So you didn't really realise how many within the Bangladesh community were watching you, and then they start to message you, and they were rooting for you. So it is pressure, because you don't want to let anyone down– they want you to do–

00:13:39 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, it's difficult. But even when someone from the community does something– whether it's getting on a platform like The Apprentice, or doing something really good for the community– they all do get behind the individual, because it's a proud moment for them–

00:13:54 Aleksandra King: Yes.

00:13:55 Shahin Hassan: –for the community. And that does really shine through.

00:13:58 Aleksandra King: And it's a really nice– proud of you, you're doing really well– it's really good. So tell me about your dad.

00:14:04 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, my dad– he's my inspiration. He's a huge role model in my life. He came here when he was 15. He had to support his family back in Bangladesh, and he worked really hard throughout his life to support his family in Bangladesh, as well as us in the UK. And yeah, he's had lots of success and lots of failures in life, and I've seen him go through all those experiences and events, and that's probably what inspired me to follow his footsteps, and also apply to be on The Apprentice.

00:14:35 Aleksandra King: Yeah– he inspired you to–

00:14:36 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, he did, he did.

00:14:38 Aleksandra King: Hard worker, and good family values.

00:14:41 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, he's a real hard worker– still working today.

00:14:46 Aleksandra King: How old is he now?

00:14:46 Shahin Hassan: He's going to be 70 in a few months.

00:14:49 Aleksandra King: Working– and that is the mindset that he's got. He can retire, but it's the– you can never take that away from someone when they've got grit, and entrepreneurism, and a vision or a passion for something. You can never change that in someone– it will always be instilled, and I think they'll keep doing that up until they– when it's time– when it's their time to go, yeah. What's he taught you about family values?

00:15:14 Shahin Hassan: Family values are really important. Having integrity is doing the right thing even when someone's not looking– doing it honestly. And yeah, making sure that your family is really important– and that's the main thing, is making sure the family first. Look after your family, yeah.

00:15:31 Aleksandra King: So you experienced a hard start, didn't you?

00:15:34 Shahin Hassan: We come from a working-class background, and we all had to work really hard. But seeing my dad go through various businesses– where he's made successful businesses, failed at some as well– has taught me the value of being resilient through difficult times. And that has given me the motivation to work at something and giving it 100%, because you know what will happen if you don't fully commit yourself to it. And obviously you've got to be smart about it as well, and make the right decisions, but yeah.

00:16:09 Aleksandra King: Yeah– resilience really is something, isn't it? Stay and be strong and work through it, and be prepared for the up and the down. For the things that matter, you stay resilient, consistent, and it just pulls you through, doesn't it?

00:16:23 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, even going through the Apprentice process, coming out of it– you need to be really tough and resilient, because you can fall into a trap where you have a really high, and then a really low, and your mindset will change as well. So yeah, because of that you need to be really steadfast in what you do.

00:16:43 Aleksandra King: This was an interesting journey for me too. I didn't know, with this podcast, like– what's going to happen? Which of the candidates are going to come on? Is anyone going to want to come on? Who would want to talk to another Apprentice crazy candidate? Like, I was thinking, do I even do this, and why would I want to do this, and so on. And when I was in the process of looking at candidates, and reaching out to them, and asking if they would come on or not, there were a huge number that just didn't want to come on, for so many reasons. And one of them– the resilience thing, what you're talking about. Some of them really took a battering. That show broke– broke them. They've had to– they have mental health problems, medication, depression, social isolation. Some of them– they want nothing to do with it. It's like a bad experience. And then obviously you've got the other group that's– they wouldn't necessarily mind– they're not depressed or anything– but also the pressure of– you're in a place going, what are you doing now? What are you doing? Come on– oh, you're making money? You're richer? And going, I don't want to talk about what I'm doing, because I'm not as successful as I want to be, in my mind. Even though you're like, listen, you don't need to be rich– just talk about your experience, talk about yourself. We doing– very few, actually– very few– the minority were like, we're going to come on, we're going to talk about it, whether it's good, whether it's bad. There are some that don't want to talk about the very controversial things, which I can understand– they're like, we don't want to talk about it– but they're confident enough to come on. That's a small percentage.

00:18:04 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, it really is. Because after all that, when you sift through it, only that little group is left that are willing to still talk about it, and acknowledge they've even been on it, and are okay with that.

00:18:17 Aleksandra King: Majority– no.

00:18:18 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, it's crazy, yeah. And that's the other side of reality TV– is no one really knows what's going on in someone's life, and it's easily misrepresented. And what the audience see for that half an hour, or 45 minutes– you can't judge someone by their actions in that moment. Because, number one, it's edited anyway– and so you probably won't see them in the best light– or you might do– but then you don't know what's going on in their mind. You don't know what's made them go on The Apprentice, you don't know what their origin story is, what their belief system is. And as you say, people are going through– what– really bad mental health issues and whatnot, and it's the other side which should also be respected as well. So I totally agree with you.

00:19:06 Aleksandra King: Absolutely. Because also, when you come out of something like that– what sort of home is this person going back to? What support system do they have? You can have psychologists, everything, but who's at home to give you a hug, and have a little cup of tea with you? You've got your dad, your family–

00:19:20 Shahin Hassan: I've got my family, and the big arms are waiting for–

00:19:23 Aleksandra King: Oh– and that hug, and that, like, the support network– it makes everything okay, doesn't it? It's up– right– but if you don't have that, and let's say you go home and there's an empty house, and you're on your own, and your mind's going– then, you know, that's a different story.

00:19:38 Shahin Hassan: Yeah. You know, that's the thing– when you do go on a show like that, and if you don't have that network– is, who do you go to? And you can find yourself alone, and this is where you get into a depression mode, and it's really hard to get out of that if you don't have– or if you don't speak to someone about it. Because everyone assumes, oh, you've been on The Apprentice, or you've been on a reality TV show– you must be set for life now.

00:20:00 Aleksandra King: Exactly.

00:20:01 Shahin Hassan: And it's not the case. It's not the case at all.

00:20:04 Aleksandra King: You have to make it work. You have to make the moves. And in a way it's harder, because you go on– and especially if you're in a corporate field, they're like, oh, come on– an Apprentice candidate– or, you– another– you're probably horrible, and you're stupid, and you don't know how to sell, and you're arrogant. And you have to overcome all those obstacles. So– actually, I'm professional, I'm very serious.

00:20:23 Shahin Hassan: Exactly, exactly, yeah. It can create a problem, and it can also be an advantage– it depends how you milk it and use it, but yeah.

00:20:30 Aleksandra King: So you built your career in engineering, you branched into business– so what keeps you motivated, and comfortable in yourself?

00:20:39 Shahin Hassan: My motivation has always been to be successful, but getting that balance– which is, at one point, am I going to be happy in life? And I feel like you need to get that balance right, in terms of when are you going to be happy, and when do you start realising actually time is precious as well– you've got to make the most of it.

00:21:00 Aleksandra King: Time is like a currency.

00:21:02 Shahin Hassan: Weighing that up– I'm at a point in my life where I think I did the hard work in my 20s and 30s, where now I can relax a bit now, and enjoy time with the family. So that's quite important to me. And yeah, when I think about the future I think about my kids– so they're my motivation as well.

00:21:22 Aleksandra King: How old are they, your kids?

00:21:23 Shahin Hassan: So I've got two girls– nine and seven– and then I've got a baby boy. He's going to be two in January.

00:21:29 Aleksandra King: Okay, so quite young still.

00:21:31 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, quite young. I want to be able to provide for them, and give them a good basis, a good foundation, so they have a decent start in life.

00:21:40 Aleksandra King: So are you happy, then?

00:21:42 Shahin Hassan: Yeah– sounds like– I think I am, I think I am. And one of the main things is having a belief system as well– making sure that whichever religion you follow– for me, I need to make sure that we follow our faith, and that's something that I instil in my family as well.

00:21:57 Aleksandra King: So you– that's important– your kids, they have their faith?

00:22:00 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, absolutely, yeah. 'Cause that's what grounds me as a person. We talked about depression, or when you have times in your life where you're feeling a bit low– for me, that was reaching out to my faith, and 100%– that helps me.

00:22:14 Aleksandra King: We don't talk about faith enough at all, I feel. And it's almost– I don't know– in the West it's become, oh yeah, whatever. I just think– it's quite harsh to say– not everyone– but it has become diminished. Europe– it used to be based on Christian values back in the day. And I'm Roman Catholic, so it is– for me– I will pray. Like, when I'm traumatised or something, I get really upset– then I pray. I pray to my guardian angel, I pray to God. And also things like– it helps you, like– when you're sad about something– in our religion it teaches you that you have to allow for the mourning, and then you must put it down and to bed– it's gone. You grieve, but the grieving ends. It's not something you carry through.

00:22:50 Shahin Hassan: That's– you're right– those are the stabilising, grounding values that, if you have them, it makes things easier.

00:22:56 Aleksandra King: So much easier, doesn't it?

00:22:58 Shahin Hassan: Yeah– no, absolutely.

00:22:59 Aleksandra King: Tell me about classic cars. I don't know anything about classic cars. My sister's husband– he lives in South Africa– he's all into that kind of thing, and they go to all these shows, and they've got all these fancy cars and things. And I don't know, like– why classic cars? What's cool about classic cars? Sell it to me.

00:23:15 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, so I've always had a passion for cars, ever since I was a kid. And obviously growing up, you see all these cars on the road, and it's a passion– it's grown over time. And why– I guess they're, like, modern classics– so from the, like, the '90s era, and the '80s– and you see these cars when you were growing up, and now I've got the opportunity to buy them, restore them, and then– and sometimes, if I really like them, I'll keep them; otherwise I'll sell them on.

00:23:46 Aleksandra King: But, like, what cars would you buy? Let's see.

00:23:48 Shahin Hassan: Classic Mercedes cars– like a 1992 Mercedes SL two-seater convertible– they're really nice to buy and sell. I've currently got a Mercedes S-Class, which is a 1998– it's a modern classic, but it's one that I've always seen when I was going to school. I always used to really have a soft spot for that car, and I see in magazines– and luckily I had the chance to buy one about four years ago, and yeah, I've had that ever since, and that's stored away. And yeah, other cars– vintage or classic Ferraris as well.

00:24:22 Aleksandra King: It's quite an expensive hobby, this one– yeah, liking cars. Let me collect some toys– like, like in the old– when you're a kid you have your little toy cars. These are proper big cars, and you're buying, restoring, keeping some of them– yeah– so you end up collecting cars. That's crazy.

00:24:37 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, it is– it is an expensive hobby. You can start off small– some of the classic cars are not that expensive. You can start off with a couple of thousand pounds, to be honest– spend some time restoring them. But yeah, it's a nice hobby, and now and then I'll sell one. But yeah, that keeps me busy on the weekends.

00:24:52 Aleksandra King: What is it about the car? Is it its look? Is it the manufacturer? Is it the engine? What is it?

00:24:59 Shahin Hassan: It's a bit of everything. It's a bit– it's something like– what can I say– how you relate to it. So how you relate to the brand– there might have been a certain time in your life where you've grown up with a brand– and when you start reading into the stories of the brands as well, that makes a huge difference to what– as a collectible– to yourself. You read the Ferrari brand story– how Ferrari became a brand– it's a sporting pedigree, and winning races, and it's all about the car's dynamics, how the engine was designed, how it feels on the road. So that's a sporting pedigree– it's a sporting brand. And then you compare other brands, like Mercedes– more about the technology, about the luxuriousness, and how they built German engineering. And then you look at British brands– like, let's say, Bentley– handcrafted, handbuilt– now with technology they do it a lot with automation– but yeah, every brand has a story, and when you could tell it, and experience that, and drive that, it really does connect you emotionally as well.

00:26:05 Aleksandra King: Which is your favourite, and why? Which one are you most connected with?

00:26:09 Shahin Hassan: Because I've owned a Ferrari– and having been through that process of kind of restoring a classic Ferrari– it was a Ferrari 456– I would say I'm quite attached to that brand. And when you read the story of the– Ferrari story– it's very much connected to the racing pedigree, and how they became a major brand in the world. That, I guess, would be the one brand that I really do connect with.

00:26:36 Aleksandra King: Is Hamilton going to Ferrari– what do you think about that?

00:26:41 Shahin Hassan: I think it's an amazing move for him to go into the Ferrari family. It'll be an interesting season next year.

00:26:50 Aleksandra King: You think he's going to perform on the same level? He's a lot older now.

00:26:54 Shahin Hassan: And you want– everyone probably will compare him to Schumacher, and I hope he does make a big impact. He's had a difficult time at Mercedes, so I think, because he's had the opportunity to go to Ferrari, now he's got something to prove. So I think mentally he will push himself as hard as possible, and I think everybody in Ferrari will also be right behind him.

00:27:16 Aleksandra King: What's the one value from your upbringing– the one that you want them to carry forward?

00:27:22 Shahin Hassan: The one value I would say is to have a good belief system. Because by being grounded in your belief system, you'll automatically get things like integrity– as I said before, doing the right thing when no one's looking. And yeah, I think that would be the key value– is having a belief system, and automatically integrity plays a huge part in that. Being yourself, being honest– to yourself– and yeah.

00:27:55 Aleksandra King: Okay. And in terms of cultural heritage and background– so as a Bangladeshi British engineer entrepreneur, what do you think we often overlook about the contribution of immigrants to this country?

00:28:07 Shahin Hassan: Look, immigrants in this country have played a huge part– socially, economically– we play a huge part. And because we do play such an important part– without us, Britain isn't Britain as it is today. And yeah, we do play a huge part, yeah.

00:28:28 Aleksandra King: And what do you think about the UK's direction on immigration?

00:28:32 Shahin Hassan: Look, the challenges that they have at the moment, with immigrants coming in illegally– that's not right, and there should be mechanisms in place, and you've got to follow the process to get into the country– so that must be followed. And we want the right people coming into the country, who will contribute to society, to the economy– who will help the economy grow. That's what we want– to make it a more diverse and strong place to live. And so that is what I support.

00:29:04 Aleksandra King: There's like– it is a bit like– you wouldn't let everyone and anyone come into your house. You look– who is that? Yep– security, this, that– you can come in, you're a friend, whatever– then you let people in. But it can't be free-for-all, I think, isn't it? But at the same time, you need the skills, and you need to be able to pull in– and I love the way that the UK is diverse, and there's a lot going on, and it's that international, like, sizzle– it does put it on another level. There's massive advantages to that– massive advantages. But yeah, it needs to be safe, secure, doesn't it, just– yeah.

00:29:36 Shahin Hassan: You know, if you look at, say, NHS, for example– I think it's like a quarter of the workforce are from ethnic minority backgrounds, and they provide such an important service to everybody. Without them, it will pretty much come to a standstill. That's just an example of the NHS. But then if you look at, say, technology– the amount of scientists, the engineers, the programmers that UK need to compete on a global scale– we do need that influx of the right talent to come through, to help these companies in the UK– who are based in the UK– to really thrive, and make England, or UK, a superpower, to compete against the likes of, say, America, China, India.

00:30:22 Aleksandra King: In that case, we can't have brain drain, because there's so many intelligent, qualified people leaving, because they're getting higher-paid jobs elsewhere. And there's this whole thing, like– the Labour government– and raise taxes, let's punish the rich, let's do that. But I am really not of that mindset. I am genuinely of a mindset of– create an environment in your country that encourages that growth, that sizzle. Make it a fertile landscape that businesses want to set their roots in– make it fertile for them. Because with these businesses come jobs, come the intelligent– the brain powers coming in– and then the economy starts moving. Because you can raise tax as much as you want, and you can make life very unpleasant for everyone here– but where's your growth coming from? Yeah– and even the growth plan that we have now in the UK for growth– I don't buy into it. I don't buy into the whole– I don't know how much you know about it– but the whole, like, let's just invest in this green energy and everything. I love the environment– I'll do anything– like, I'm crazy about birds, and I'm obsessed with the environment, okay? But at the same time, you've got to be realistic. And wind and solar energy– I was actually researching it this morning, I was looking into it– it's very good, and they're investing it or whatever– on some level it seems good. But actually, when you look into what you need– the components– that comes from China. And if you want to be independent with your energy, then why are you doing that? And also nuclear– it's more reliable, because the output is like 90%, whereas with wind and solar it's 30 or 35%, so you're not really getting bang for your buck. But the UK is investing massively into wind and solar.

00:31:56 Shahin Hassan: We do need a bed of businesses who are going to– [inaudible: ~13-second caption gap] –supporting them with grants, and potentially lower taxes and whatnot. They really do need to focus on– what's it going to take to make the UK a superpower? Because China are increasing their manufacturing capabilities; you've got the likes of India as well, who are a real superpower now. Now you've got Trump in– he wants America to establish themselves as a manufacturer– now they're going to be investing a lot of money into the Rust Belt to create new opportunities. So for the UK to compete with those economies, we do need to make it as interesting and enticing as possible for UK startups, and businesses in general, and give them some relief on some of these technologies.

00:33:00 Aleksandra King: You've got an entrepreneur running the country– so he's going to look at the assets. What do we have? What are our resources? What are the people? How much money do we have? How much debt do we have? And then manage the books, and make it so you're growing and getting profitable. It's like business– it's business. Come– Trump has appointed Elon Musk to do some efficiencies.

00:33:17 Shahin Hassan: I think it's fantastic, to be honest. It's really interesting– you've got someone who is highly intelligent, who has run successful companies all his life, and now he's managed to get a seat at the table with President Trump, and now he has the opportunity to cut out waste.

00:33:35 Aleksandra King: Waste– and imagine if there's a lot of it, even in this government. If you looked into the NHS– you know how many– yeah– spider webs, cobwebs– oh my God. And I'm certain some people are worried in the government, that– oh, if America have done this, why can't we? They're hiding– they're hiding. So those employees in the office– they hide.

00:33:56 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, absolutely. And I was on LinkedIn just this morning, and the owner of BrewDog– even he was saying, do you know what, maybe I should apply for a job like this in the UK government– there's an opportunity here to cut out waste.

00:34:07 Aleksandra King: But they don't want you to, 'cause they want to continue hiding.

00:34:10 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, exactly– and that's the scary bit. And for someone like– a party like Labour– that's not good.

00:34:15 Aleksandra King: On Elon Musk– he released a tweet, actually, okay, about energy costs in the UK. And it's, like, lists, like, a whole bunch of top countries– important countries, whatever– and their energy costs. And then you've got the UK at the top, with the costs almost off the chart, and then everyone else there, and with low costs. Yeah– so this is what I'm talking about. The UK– already it's 50% renewables, and we're going heavy into that. We're spending money– it's very expensive to get this going.

00:34:48 Shahin Hassan: Yeah– very expensive.

00:34:49 Aleksandra King: Massively in debt. How are we rich enough to start going to the most expensive energy, when– look at our costs, look at our debt, our growth– yeah.

00:35:01 Shahin Hassan: Yeah, yeah. And that's, I guess, the good thing about Trump– is he has that belief that they can do it themselves, and he's taking on the right people, and he's not scared of politicians– who are bullies, always. And I think UK obviously don't have that stance, and they can't do that, really.

00:35:19 Aleksandra King: Yeah. We need someone for the UK that's– okay, you're putting America first? We're putting the UK first. We're putting the UK back on the map. We need, like, a Thatcher-esque style– tough– put its arms around the country, go, right, world– the UK is back, and we're all about Britain, and this is how it's going to be from now on. And use what we've got– use what we've got in-house– and grow that instead of– stop wasting money.

00:35:44 Shahin Hassan: I agree, but it's really difficult– who would do that?

00:35:46 Aleksandra King: Need someone with guts, that's brave, pretty smart– you don't have to even be that smart, because this is quite basic. Not real– Sugar, right? Come on.

00:35:57 Shahin Hassan: Absolutely not. No, no– I don't think the country can– I mean, you would have them as advisers– like the Sugars and that.

00:36:05 Aleksandra King: I totally would believe in bringing people in. Right– you tell me, from business perspective, what would you like to see on tax?

00:36:12 Shahin Hassan: The other– the challenge that we have is– obviously that's one group of people who want that, but then you've got socialists who want–

00:36:19 Aleksandra King: Oh, socialist– come on– the– for the greater good– for people who are– greater good for them, when– you know, yeah.

00:36:25 Shahin Hassan: So, you know, it's getting that balance.

00:36:27 Aleksandra King: Okay, but socialist countries– so, like, in Sweden– so their healthcare system is incredibly efficient– it's– but it's built for a socialist system. It's designed in that way– it's quite centralised, not like our NHS with multiple units and divisions. It's run in a way that's good for socialist-type government. But their debt is very low compared to us. We have a totally different scenario going on, and we need to look at it like that.

00:36:54 Shahin Hassan: I mean– as you were talking, I was just thinking– you look at salaries– the average salary in the UK, versus the rate of inflation, and the cost of house prices– how do you tackle that? You compare that to, say, the '90s, even early noughties– there's no way that a buyer now, who's just come out of university, is able to afford to buy a house. And what the government's doing now is obviously restricting all these landlords and investors in– not to buy property– and give them a chance. But then that's the opportunity– is, you need investors, you need those people who will create those opportunities, the jobs, who will be developing properties, etc. And by trying to– heavily tax those investors and developers– it still alienates these first-time buyers, because they still can't get onto the property ladder anyway. So it's a real difficult situation that they've put a lot of people in, when it comes to investing in the UK.

00:37:59 Aleksandra King: Yeah– no, it's not a good place to invest, right. And the other thing Musk said, actually– I don't know if you saw this– was he also attacked the Labour government now, so– Starmer– on free speech, saying that they're releasing criminals from overcrowded prisons, but then putting people into jail for opposing– contradictory views to the government. What do you think about–

00:38:18 Shahin Hassan: I don't see why Elon Musk is getting involved in British politics, to be honest with you. I don't care that he owns Twitter, but there's no need for him to meddle in UK politics. And he is quite controversial himself, to be honest. He didn't support Trump all his life– it's only been in the last few years– last few– month– couple of years, probably– where he switched sides, to be honest. So he was–

00:38:40 Aleksandra King: Yeah, he was Democrat.

00:38:41 Shahin Hassan: Yeah. So I don't see why he's meddling in UK politics– there's no need for him to do that.

00:38:46 Aleksandra King: It's okay to change your mind, but– yes– Vance changed his mind– his VP– he hated him, and then now he likes him. But you're allowed to.

00:38:53 Shahin Hassan: Yeah– Elon Musk probably have a hidden agenda anyway– he's now made it into the White House.

00:39:00 Aleksandra King: Yeah– you never know what– who you think is going to be the next president– Elon Musk might be knocking. I tell you what I like– I want someone that's going to really, like, with every single cell in their body, want the best for Britain– yeah– and bring Britain, like, properly back on a map. We've got very political– this has just really swung in that direction– I don't know– it's obviously a hot topic. But what, in your opinion, then, makes a good leader? And then I've got one more question after that.

00:39:26 Shahin Hassan: It's how to motivate your people, and empowering them, and trusting them. And what COVID has taught us is that you need to trust your employees– the people that work for you– because work can still be done even when you're at home, or not on site and stuff. So I think that shift– that mindset has shifted, and it's probably changed a lot of people.

00:39:51 Aleksandra King: Last question– it's twofold. What's next for you? And also, how would you like to be remembered– what do you want people to know about you?

00:40:00 Shahin Hassan: Yeah– next for me– I still will be investing in property, so I'll continue doing that; continue buying and selling cars; and yeah, try and keep fit, stay healthy– I think those are the kind of– and enjoy life, to be honest.

00:40:18 Aleksandra King: And how do you want to be remembered?

00:40:19 Shahin Hassan: To be remembered– someone who's authentic and honest– a realist. One thing I'd probably say to your audience is– don't be fazed by what you're on social media, because it's not always real. A picture can say a lot of things. You look at someone and you think they're really successful, they don't have any problems in life and whatnot– but actually, when you look deep into their life, you realise they have problems– everyday problems that you have as well. So don't think that they are someone really special. They're just everyday people.

00:40:52 Aleksandra King: That's life. Thank you for coming on the podcast– lovely having you.

00:40:57 Shahin Hassan: Thank you so much.

00:40:58 Aleksandra King: Thank you.