Ian Stringer | Turning Trauma into Strength

Cold open

The episode opens with Aleksandra speaking to camera, previewing the interview. This is a host intro, not a clip montage– these lines do not recur later in the episode.

00:00:00 Aleksandra King: Ian Stringer. Okay, this interview started off a little bit fiery, okay? Ian wasn't giving me what I wanted– deliberately. He was one-wording me, one-word answering me, so it was a bit tough. We had a bit of a scrape. However, he delivers, okay? He delivers. He tells me a lot of interesting stuff. He gets down about Apprentice, down about addiction, down about abuse. We get into it all. This one is a fiery bomb.

Interview

00:00:38 Aleksandra King: Hello, Ian.

00:00:40 Ian Stringer: Hello.

00:00:40 Aleksandra King: Welcome– welcome to Beyond the Boardroom. How are you today?

00:00:44 Ian Stringer: I'm okay, yeah. I'm all right.

00:00:46 Aleksandra King: What was the overall Apprentice experience like for you?

00:00:50 Ian Stringer: The overall Apprentice experience was a bit of fun. It was in many ways life-changing, because of what came after. It was something I reflect on and I don't visit a great deal or talk about. It was a moment in time in my life that has been and gone, and I've learned from, to be honest.

00:01:13 Aleksandra King: Has your Apprentice experience generally, do you think, helped or hindered your overall reputation, or had no impact?

00:01:22 Ian Stringer: My overall reputation in what context?

00:01:25 Aleksandra King: Your professional reputation.

00:01:29 Ian Stringer: I think initially it helped. The kind of sweep of 8 million people are watching a television show that you're involved in is seen as a positive, and can have a positive influence for your profile– hate that word. But then what comes with it can be a challenge. But again, I was pretty ready for that and was aware of that.

00:01:52 Aleksandra King: So when you say what comes after that– what are you– what is that?

00:01:58 Ian Stringer: Media scrutiny.

00:02:01 Aleksandra King: Mhm. In what way?

00:02:07 Ian Stringer: In the salacious red-top newspapers trying to find information on individuals. That can be a challenge, and was a challenge, but again, it wasn't unexpected.

00:02:22 Aleksandra King: And on the more positive side, what's the most valuable lesson that you learned from your experience on The Apprentice that you then took into broadcasting? You've had a– have a pretty good career in broadcasting.

00:02:38 Ian Stringer: Thank you. I would say probably resilience building, actually, I think would probably be– to have been able to build up resilience of failure, building up resilience of not achieving, building up resilience of dealing with the media spotlight, building up resilience of kind of what comes with it. I think that was probably the biggest positive that came from it for me. But also, actually, it put me at a career crossroads, really– whether I wanted to carry on with my business career and use what The Apprentice had generated in terms of a profile– again, I hate the word, but I've used it twice– or whether I wanted to go into broadcasting more, which I was already doing.

00:03:26 Aleksandra King: Had you considered that media field before going into The Apprentice?

00:03:29 Ian Stringer: I was already a football reporter when I applied. So I was working Monday to Friday, 9 to 5, in software sales, and then at the weekends, on a Saturday, I was football reporting. So I was reporting on relatively low-level league teams– with the utmost respect to MK Dons and Wycombe Wanderers, I was reporting on those on a Saturday, and I had been for a while. It is an industry I'd always taken huge interest in and really enjoyed, and so I was already doing that. And when The Apprentice finished, I had an opportunity to maybe double down on that, which I did, and as you kindly say, I've done okay.

00:04:12 Aleksandra King: More than okay. You've won the highly commended– you know, Commentator of the Year award. That's pretty cool. You've been doing it a while. If you Google– you've got a very good presence on Google. Would you say that you've been quite successful, or– you–

00:04:27 Ian Stringer: I've done–

00:04:28 Aleksandra King: You've been–

00:04:29 Ian Stringer: I've done okay.

00:04:30 Aleksandra King: Humility is the most attractive trait that I see in anybody.

00:04:33 Ian Stringer: Winning an SJA– a Sports Journalists' Association award– is our equivalent of the Oscars, and I was lucky to–

00:04:42 Aleksandra King: Luck? Talent, let's say. Fortune.

00:04:45 Ian Stringer: Fortune.

00:04:46 Aleksandra King: Fortune favours the brave though, right?

00:04:47 Ian Stringer: I was fortunate enough to be rewarded for some good work at the SJAs, and amongst my peers. That was great, but it's not for me– it's not necessarily about that. It's about getting experience, and commentating on a thousand professional games of football in my career, and commentating on football in LA and in Hong Kong and in Thailand and around Europe. And– I got very lucky with the Leicester City story in 2016, when they won the Premier League.

00:05:16 Aleksandra King: So what drove you to pursue a tribunal case against the BBC?

00:05:21 Ian Stringer: Because I believed I was wrongfully dismissed.

00:05:25 Aleksandra King: And why were you wrongfully dismissed?

00:05:28 Ian Stringer: Why– an interesting question. My lawyer, in the first week of dealing with him, advised that I never try and understand the why, because you'll never get to it. He said, if there's one thing you can do, never try and focus on the why. You'll never understand the why, nobody will ever know the why, nobody will ever admit to the why. So get that out of your head now, and let's try and prove that you were wrongfully dismissed– which we failed in doing, and so we draw a line and we move on.

00:05:56 Aleksandra King: So you open up this case against the BBC. Your lawyer– you want to know why this has happened to you, your lawyer is saying, we can't talk about the why–

00:06:08 Ian Stringer: No, you'll never understand the why. You'll never get the why.

00:06:11 Aleksandra King: The why– will you never get the why? So don't focus on the why?

00:06:16 Ian Stringer: Yeah.

00:06:17 Aleksandra King: And you're still not going to talk about the why, or– you– you care about the why?

00:06:21 Ian Stringer: I don't know. I don't know why– that's the thing. You'll never understand why. You just try and prove one way or the other, and so ultimately that's what we attempted to do.

00:06:33 Aleksandra King: Are there any regrets about the BBC's tribunal outcome and how it played out publicly?

00:06:39 Ian Stringer: No. No regrets whatsoever on that, no.

00:06:45 Aleksandra King: So from the research that I was doing online, some said that it wasn't about whistleblowing but about freebies and misconduct. I don't know if you want to comment on that or not, but if you do want to give your side of the story, that'll be great.

00:07:03 Ian Stringer: So what's the question?

00:07:05 Aleksandra King: Some have said it's about freebies and not about misconduct– so the COVID-19 breaches. What are your thoughts on that?

00:07:18 Ian Stringer: My thoughts are, I've drawn a line under what's happened and I've moved on with my life. Freelance football reporter and commentator now– I'm working for Sky Sports, I'm working for talkSPORT, I'm working for ITV, I'm working for international companies, and I'm overjoyed. I thoroughly enjoyed the 20 years I had with the BBC, and had some of the best moments of my career.

00:07:42 Aleksandra King: This will probably be a difficult question for you, but do you think the BBC handled your case fairly?

00:07:54 Ian Stringer: No.

00:07:58 Aleksandra King: It's quite tough when you're coming up against a big organisation like that, and you feel this way.

00:08:06 Ian Stringer: Yeah, I agree.

00:08:11 Aleksandra King: How does it make you feel?

00:08:15 Ian Stringer: Which bit?

00:08:17 Aleksandra King: The bit that you feel you've been treated unfairly.

00:08:21 Ian Stringer: How does it make me feel? It makes me– it's difficult, because I don't feel I was treated particularly fairly. But also, again, it's built resilience in me and my career. It's allowed me to experience lows and suffering, and to price a bit of that into my future. What's in the past is in the past, isn't it? You can't change that, you can't alter that. You can reflect on it, you can try and learn on it and from it, and ultimately that's what I've tried to do, and with a degree of success.

00:09:04 Aleksandra King: Yeah, that is all you can do really, yeah– is learn from it and grow and move on. You can't– yeah, you can't sit in that. But it must be tough.

00:09:14 Ian Stringer: Yeah, yeah, it is tough, and it was challenging, and it remains challenging. But nobody's going to change anything. The court case isn't all of a sudden going to change when I wake up one morning. Things that have happened in my life, whatever they are– good, bad or indifferent– they're not going to be gone. Nobody can take away the fact that I called some of the biggest moments in the Premier League history in my career. So they happened, yeah– the good and the bad, the in between, the average stuff. It's all been and gone. So as long as, in that moment, at that time, I gave my all, I tried my best, I left no stone unturned– in a personal capacity, a professional capacity– then I don't see the value in wallowing in my own misery. I think you've got to pick yourself back up and try and learn.

00:10:07 Aleksandra King: Yeah. I think anyone listening to that– to this, to what you're saying– and obviously you've had huge things happen to you, and it's a big deal when you're going up against the BBC, and it's also a big deal when you respond to it in the way that you have, and you just– you soldier on, you–

00:10:22 Ian Stringer: Yeah– I don't– yeah– but context is king though, isn't it? Because I say this to my kids all the time: there's a doctor somewhere 20 miles from my home that's operating on a child with cancer, and there are parents in a waiting room not knowing if that operation is going to go okay. And if they are of a religious persuasion, they're asking their almighty to help; if they're not, then they want to put all their faith in the medical people and professionals, and we all hope that everything's going to be okay. And they're in a waiting room, wondering about the health of their child. I went up against a Goliath in court and lost, okay? Those kids are– contextually, that's significant, that's important, what we're talking about. With the utmost respect, it's– yeah, it's not a matter of life and death. It's not. And actually, a lot's happened in my life that has really narrowed my focus and allowed me to have a level of context. With that in mind– and I know that doesn't fit into the Apprentice lifestyle, the Apprentice view, and maybe what initially you wanted to talk to me about. We're that polar opposite– your Lord Sugar was X, Y, Z, or he wasn't– and you're at one end of that extreme spectrum. I'm not. I'm one of these people in the middle. 2024 doesn't allow for context, I think, and nuance. I think the fear-of-missing-out generation and the can-we-skip-to-the-good-part generation are everything that's wrong. I think, actually, if you're somewhere in the middle, and you can reflect and you can have context with things in your life, then I think that allows you to keep a level head on when things are going well and when things aren't going well. I didn't use that when I tried to get through the auditions to get on the show, of course, but I knew what I was doing.

00:12:16 Aleksandra King: Yeah. Just to give you context to what I'm doing here: this is not an opportunity to catch you out, and it's not an opportunity to sensationalise. It's an opportunity to allow others to learn something from what you've been through, to add value in that way. Sometimes, when people have gone through something and you hear about it, you can relate to it and you can learn from it, and you can also try and avoid making that mistake. You know how these things work, of course. It's entertainment– someone will put it on and go, ooh, let's hear about the Apprentice candidates, whatever– but it's also showing a deeper level than the shallow sort of cannon fodder being displayed and ridiculed. It's humanising– let's get to know the person a little bit, let's get to understand the story. Some might like it, some might relate, some might not. I actually don't know– this is the first time I'm doing this, so I'll just be frank– but I feel like it's interesting. It's a human story, and just because it's not a matter of life and death doesn't mean it's less of an important story. It's your story.

00:13:26 Ian Stringer: Everyone's got a story to tell. That's my view as a journalist, that's my view as a human being. Everybody has a story to tell, and that story can be of interest, and I get that. I understand that, I do. But I also think context is key, and context is important, and context can get lost in the edit room.

00:13:49 Aleksandra King: Like I say to everyone– which is why I like to have the questions reviewed– is because I feel that if there's something you don't want to talk about or say, don't say or talk about it in the first place, because once you do, and it's out there, it's out there. So everyone has to take responsibility for their own brands, and I feel you're extremely aware of that, and I think that in answering these questions you're very much controlling the narrative, I would say– your narrative– which is fair. You agree with that?

00:14:27 Ian Stringer: Yeah. I can control what I say, and I can only give you my truth. That's honestly how I feel. I have no vested interest in portraying myself in one way or the other, because I don't understand the value in that. I don't– there is no value– there is no value in that, there absolutely isn't. I have answered your questions in an honest manner, and again, with the utmost respect, I've been spoken to about every incident that you and I have discussed by a lot of different people. And that can be a cold-call reporter knocking on your door, it can be emails into your inbox that you need to reply to, and they're difficult. So I'm more than happy to talk about what I'm happy to talk about, but if I don't want to discuss something in detail, that is my– that is my prerogative. And if I choose to do that– for me, for my mental health, for my ability to test my resilience and move on– then again, that's up to me. I have my views on every question that you've had. I've given my views honestly, and it may not make interesting soundbites, but that's how I feel, that's the place I'm in, and I'm good– I'm good with that.

00:15:48 Aleksandra King: That's all we could ever ask of anyone. What's the hardest part of balancing your media life with your family responsibilities?

00:15:58 Ian Stringer: Media life– do you mean in terms of my job, my profession?

00:16:01 Aleksandra King: Yeah, being public. What's the hardest?

00:16:05 Ian Stringer: Probably Google.

00:16:08 Aleksandra King: Why?

00:16:09 Ian Stringer: Just because, in 2024, things are– there used to be a saying, didn't there, that newspaper is tomorrow's chip paper– today's newspaper is tomorrow's chip paper– and that was fine, that was okay in the 80s and 90s, but now it's not, because it stays there forever. And that's probably the most difficult part– and managing publicly what you say and how you say it. I think social media is a juggernaut, isn't it, and you need to be acutely aware of what you say and how you say it. Because you need to make sure that your kids, when they go to school, may be asked about it, may find out about it– so you just got to furnish them with a bit of detail in between– is something that may resonate with you and anybody else that's been through the process that we have. So that's probably– that's probably– yeah, I think that's probably the biggest challenge, actually. Obviously working weekends, but I've worked weekends for 20-plus years– my days of work are Saturday and Sunday– so balancing that with family life is a challenge.

00:17:16 Aleksandra King: Something you have spoken about publicly online– and it is there, and there's several articles about it– is your mum's struggles with alcoholism. Do you want to comment on that at all today, and how that experience was– what you went through, what your mum went through, and how that impacted you?

00:17:39 Ian Stringer: Yes, I'm happy to do that. I'm happy to talk about it. What would you like to know? Just want clarification on the question.

00:17:47 Aleksandra King: What was it like for you? What was it like for your mum? How did it impact you?

00:17:51 Ian Stringer: Which bit– the alcohol, the disease?

00:17:54 Aleksandra King: The alcohol, the alcoholism, yes.

00:17:57 Ian Stringer: It was– initially, when you're a child, you don't know. I'm a big fan of Oasis, and Noel Gallagher's kind of a hero of mine, and you hear Noel talk about– people say to him, oh, you were brought up on a council estate, rough life and all– and Noel will always say, or will often say, yeah, but the guys next door were having the same, and the rest of the estate was suffering the same things. Nobody had any money, there was alcohol, there was sometimes violence, there was sometimes crime– we all had the same around us. And I very much feel similar to that, in that at the time, as a child, you don't know different. How alcoholism affected me was, I had a warped sense of what was normal, had a warped sense of how a drug changes a personality. And at the time, when you're six, seven, eight, and you're making toys out of lager cans– you're making pyramids out of lager cans, and you and your baby brother and sister are knocking them down– and I remember speaking to my counsellor about that, and I spoke about it with a smile on my face, and she looked at me and said, do you understand the significance of that– that you see that as a happy memory? And building pyramids with empty lager cans isn't great parenting– that speaks to the fact there's kind of problems in there. To me, I was making pyramids, and me and my little brother and sister were whacking them down– it was great. But it clearly wasn't great, was it? And it's a disease– and it's took me a while, and counselling helped, to understand it was a disease. I was very angry when I lost my mum, and I wear her engagement ring around my neck every day, to remind me of a happy person.

00:19:46 Aleksandra King: How old were you when you lost your mum?

00:19:49 Ian Stringer: I lost my mum two days after Manchester City won the Premier League. So the biggest day of my career was on the 2nd of May, and I lost my mum– sorry.

00:20:00 Aleksandra King: Yeah– so how old were you, sorry?

00:20:04 Ian Stringer: In 2016, I was 35. My birthday was on the 1st of May, Leicester won the Premier League on the 2nd, she died on the 4th, but she wasn't discovered until the 27th of June.

00:20:18 Aleksandra King: Why? Why was that?

00:20:20 Ian Stringer: Because nobody discovered her body.

00:20:23 Aleksandra King: Oh my God.

00:20:25 Ian Stringer: I had stopped speaking with my late mother about two years before. Alcoholics Anonymous advise children of alcoholics to– when you get to the point– and anybody watching this, and I'm sorry if you are and this resonates– you get to a point, and everyone knows that point, where you just go, I'm done. And I describe that point as– it's like a 100-metre track, and me and all her siblings, grandchildren, are at the finish. She's at the start, in the blocks, and all we're asking– I say all– is for her to get out the blocks and run a metre. We'll run the 99, we'll sprint the 99. But if you don't want to get out of the metre, and accept it's a disease and want help, there's only so much we can do. So we stopped speaking to her. I stopped speaking to her because I was just– I found it impossible. I didn't want to speak to my kids about why their nana had died, because I could see the inevitable. And I'd check in with my uncle and text him, because he lived relatively close, and just make sure she was, frankly, still alive. And we got a call from the coroner that in the sheltered home that she had lived in, there had been concerns raised that nobody had seen her for a while, and the police forced entry and found her on the bathroom floor. She had to be identified by her dental records.

00:21:43 Aleksandra King: Oh my word, that's awful. I'm– it's– I am so sorry. Just to say that– just to hear you saying, repeating that– I am so sorry. That's– it's incomprehensible. Like, your mum is just– it just is so odd, isn't it, to understand why, when something's so bad for someone, that they can't just stop it. Just stop that thing– it's really bad for you– can you just not stop it? What is it, in alcohol, in addiction, that grips someone's soul to that extent?

00:22:22 Ian Stringer: It's a disease, isn't it? And I've come to learn that, and counselling's really helped me with that, to understand that it is a disease. And just, again, to put into context what we've spoken about earlier: when you've had to call the dentist to get your mum's dental records, to identify her gold tooth that will identify it's her– again, I hate to point out the obvious, but there wasn't enough of her flesh to identify who she was. When you understand it is a disease, when you understand ultimately– and this is how I can be at peace in it, with it, and this is how I can realise that I have– and still– and had love for my mum– is that she didn't intend to be hooked. An addict doesn't intend to be hooked. It is a disease. It is no longer a choice. They don't say, I'm going to take that drink, that– do that– it's involuntary. They can't control it anymore– they lose control. And when you identify that, as a child of an alcoholic, which I am, you can then start to accept that the blame isn't necessarily with the person. And that's the hard bit, because she raised me. When she was sober, she was a doting mum– she'd do anything. She once came home– we were living in a council house in Leicester– I don't want a badge, we lived in a council house, I loved it, the best years of my childhood– she came home with a black eye, and she'd been in a fight in the morning, and she had some milk. And I said, what happened? And she said, I stole the milk from the next-door neighbour. And she heard me– why did you steal milk? She said, because you've not got any breakfast. She couldn't afford any milk, she couldn't afford breakfast, and she walked in, and she'd got in a fight with the neighbour, but she had the milk, and so her son ate. And that goes back to the fundamentals– who, without the disease, she was. And that's not great– stealing is bad, kids, don't steal– but she was in a position whereby it was her or the food, and she tried to feed her son, and ultimately she did. And if I could find my neighbour ever again, I would– I'd pay her back for the lost milk. But when she wasn't gripped by the disease, she was a good person. And when you understand it's a disease, you can understand that, and when you understand that, you can forgive. I have forgiven my mother. I have not forgiven the drug– which is legal, but it's highly addictive– highly addictive. It's legal, and it gets taxed for the government, and all of that, but it's addictive. Alcohol kills more people than every class A drug put together, but it's okay, because it's legal. Tobacco is okay, because it's legal. And once you've realised that it's a disease, you can start to forgive the person, and that's been the important thing for me. There'll be a lot of people watching that– that have that drink– I think probably more than they should, and– but that's okay. But there is then an addiction, and there is a gap between drinking and being okay. Can you stop? Can you have four and stop? Can you have five and stop? Can you have seven and stop? You could stop then– okay. But there is then an area you venture into where you can't, and if you can't, then you might have a problem. And I would implore anybody that's watching, or anybody that knows somebody that has a problem, just to try and offer help if you can. Use services like Alcoholics Anonymous. Do the test– can you stop? Can you stop, full stop? Do the test. I think that's the question, because probably a lot of people watching will think, I can definitely stop. But can they? For two days, for three days, for one week, for one month– how long can you stop for? It's a huge thing. It's a huge problem in this country.

00:25:44 Aleksandra King: Yeah, I agree. And it's actually helped me deal with trauma in a different way, because I don't drink at all. Something else that you've spoken openly about is domestic violence. What did that look like?

00:25:59 Ian Stringer: Domestic violence, within my life, looked like my late mother being beaten in front of me.

00:26:12 Aleksandra King: In front of you.

00:26:13 Ian Stringer: I remember dialling 999 from my neighbour's house. There was– alcohol was always involved. My brother and sister were very young, and there was an altercation downstairs, and I heard it. My brother was asleep, but my sister was on the sofa– it was early hours of the morning– and it was shouting, throwing things, violence. I could hear it, and I went downstairs and grabbed my sister and ran out the front door, and my mum was at the front door, and I saw my mum be headbutted.

00:26:41 Aleksandra King: By whom?

00:26:44 Ian Stringer: By her partner at the time.

00:26:47 Aleksandra King: So not your dad?

00:26:48 Ian Stringer: Not my dad, no. Categorically not my dad, no. To place on the record: my mum and dad never had any violent problems or issues at all. It was her partner at the time.

00:26:58 Aleksandra King: So this partner is doing that to her, and how– was he living with you?

00:27:02 Ian Stringer: Yeah. He was the father of my brother and sister. And I ran next door, and I misdialled 999 because I was shaking so much. I picked up the phone of my neighbour– my neighbour was out, half the street was out– and I picked up the receiver, and I went to dial 999, and I hit the first two nines– okay, I was only 10– I hit the first two nines and I missed the nine– oh, the last one– because I was shaking so bad. And eventually I hit it, and the police turned up, and they arrested him, and he was charged, and– completely guilty to common assault. That's not– it's not great, it's not much fun. And domestic violence– domestic violence is horrible to witness, and particularly when it's somebody that you love.

00:27:45 Aleksandra King: That's impossible– that's impossible to– especially as a child, as a kid.

00:27:48 Ian Stringer: Yeah.

00:27:49 Aleksandra King: To see your mum being headbutted by her partner– that's going to rip through every emotion. I don't even– the scars, the trying to come back from that– you will never forget something like that, I think.

00:28:03 Ian Stringer: No. And I can see it now.

00:28:05 Aleksandra King: Yeah– now?

00:28:06 Ian Stringer: Right now, I can see the second of impact. And counselling helps, honestly. I've seen a counsellor for five, six years, and we've gone through a lot of trauma. We've gone through dealing with trauma, we've gone through dealing with other people and their addictions, and it leaves scars. It leaves pretty big scars, and they're not very nice. And yeah, there's different wounds on my body that are opened at different times of the year. And the domestic violence is horrible. I remember one night when there was so much drink involved– the night, ultimately, I left my mum's care, because I took the decision, when I was 13, to leave living with my mum. I went and lived with my dad, and what breaks my heart is I couldn't take my brother and sister with me– so that was hard. But there was a night in particular where there was violence, there was alcohol– always alcohol. It's meant to be really cool, but I never saw a good side to it. Would you believe, when I moved in with my dad– my dad was a publican, so I lived in pubs for the next four years of my life– so I'm certainly not an advocate for drink, I've got to say that. But that night was horrible, and it was around Halloween– so around this time of year it comes back to me a little bit. But ultimately, as a 13-year-old boy, I dealt with it as best I could– got my brother and sister out of the car when a heavily intoxicated person that had just been violent towards my mum was going to drive us home. And had he done so, there'd have been an accident, undoubtedly, because he was so drunk. And I did my best to protect my brother and sister. And in some ways, if she can hear me or see me now, I hope that she looks down and thinks that he's learned from some of the traumatic things that he was put through when he was a boy, and that's made him a better person and a better parent. When I get to life's T-junctions, I often run away, or in the opposite direction, to where I've seen other people make mistakes as parents. We want our kids to learn from our mistakes, right? I think– God love her– I think I've learned from some of hers, and hopefully made better decisions for it. Because one thing's for sure: I'm a bloody good dad. It's good to be able to say that. I am a– I am an incredible father, and I would do anything for my children, and I have an incredible relationship with them. And actually, that sometimes can be scary, because as a parent, when you've lost a parent, you know that ultimately, one day, that will happen to them as well, and the stronger your bond, the harder it might be for them. But– but yeah, I've got a great relationship with my kids.

00:30:58 Aleksandra King: Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

00:31:02 Ian Stringer: Amen, sister. That's what I would say to that.

00:31:05 Aleksandra King: Speaking to you and meeting you initially, you can feel that guard up– back up– protective sort of air that you have– I would say, if I may– that you have around you. You definitely have that. You can understand why you've got that, you can understand that it's there to protect you, because of the things that have happened. You've lived through these things, and it's made you more careful– obviously your childhood, what happened with your mum, the way her partner treated her, the media, all these sorts of things. And it does come across– feel that something's– that there is something more, let's say– if I may say it at all– something more heavy and a little bit difficult that's happened there. I think that– I can certainly feel that coming from you. It's nice to hear you open up, and it's nice to understand why, really, from you directly. And I think it's quite something to be vulnerable and open about it. It really is. It's– I know that you say the counselling has helped you.

00:32:17 Ian Stringer: I find it helpful, actually. I will speak about my late mother on a semi-regular basis. Ironically, I'm actually in Canary Wharf next week doing a keynote speech about dealing with mental health and dealing with kind of adversity that we've discussed today, and some of the coping mechanisms that I have found and dealt with. And I find it's helpful, actually, because I really hope– and I know this is true, because people, individuals, can and do contact me– I just really hope that it can have helped. If you've helped somebody, if you've helped one person– if one person reaches out and says, do you know, I'm not okay, and what we discussed today, I'm going to do this, or, what do you think I could do– I'm not an oracle, I can just tell what's helped me. And, if I may say, what we've discussed today honestly does just offer context into my life. And it would be easy to sit here and throw mud at The Apprentice and what happened, and to throw mud about anything that's happened with my employment in between times, and I understand why people are interested, because salacious newspapers can and have reported things, and that's okay. Just be careful what you read, would be my advice to a lot of people– and certainly be careful what you believe. But the context in my life of some of the things that I've experienced mean that that's small potatoes, really.

00:33:37 Aleksandra King: Let's go to another addiction that a lot of people have, that isn't so sinister– but is it?– sugar. Not Lord Sugar– sugar itself, yeah. So you and I were speaking about this earlier. Because I think– let's just speak– we've got a few minutes left, so it's like recovery, positive– you're into exercise, you've run five marathons, you know, you're doing well in your career, you're into all the health stuff, you're into not eating sugar. So talk to me about– and you talk about controlling your chimp– let's talk about controlling your chimp, let's talk about the right track– sports, no sugar, all that stuff.

00:34:15 Ian Stringer: Yeah. I believe I have my late mother's trait of addiction, but I think that mine manifests itself in sugar. I am really good at bingeing. I can go– I'm good at abstinence, as you said earlier on– can you go without? The challenge is to go with, but monitor what you do, and that's what I can't do with sugar. So I have– I've been three weeks now, I think, without consuming any sugar, which– I'm going in waves, and that's not good. It's not good for me, I think. I've accepted that I'm an all-or-nothing. Where do I get that from, I wonder?

00:34:54 Aleksandra King: For those that don't know, you and I had a bit of a deal when we were on our pre-podcast call: can you give up sugar from the time we had this call– which is about– that time, until now. I'm a really bad liar, so I'm just going to tell you now: I have been good, except for birthdays, which we've had. So on birthdays I've had cake, I've had the biscuits for the birthday, and possibly some chocolate for the– only related to the birthdays, okay? But there have been a few birthdays. And when the cake was left over for the next day– because it was connected to the birthday, and it's my child– I can't be like, oh, I'm not– I'm such a– anti-sugar person, I can't have cakes– so that's rude. So I might have had some of that cake. What about you? Go on, what about you?

00:35:39 Ian Stringer: Yeah– I find it hard. I find it a challenge, and I've come to the conclusion that actually my body really enjoys not having refined sugar in it.

00:35:48 Aleksandra King: Enjoys it?

00:35:50 Ian Stringer: Yeah– enjoys– enjoys not having it, right? So my body is healthier, and tells me and gives me cues that when you don't put this into me– yeah– I feel better.

00:36:01 Aleksandra King: You do, yeah.

00:36:02 Ian Stringer: Replace sugar with anything, by the way– replace what I've just said with alcohol, with tobacco, with cocaine, I don't know, whatever– but for me it's sugar. Read Pure, White and Deadly by John Yudkin, and you'll see the power and the extent of– Pure, White and Deadly.

00:36:17 Aleksandra King: Pure, White and Deadly?

00:36:18 Ian Stringer: Read Pure, White and Deadly. It's not talking about cocaine– it's talking about sugar. And what I also try to do is try and keep fit and keep healthy, if I can. I've run 20 marathons in my life. I ran five in five days, for a charity that means a lot to me.

00:36:33 Aleksandra King: Mad.

00:36:33 Ian Stringer: And yeah– yeah. But it was interesting– running in Bangkok on Tuesday, Hawaii Wednesday, Alaska Thursday, New York Friday, Leicester on Saturday, and doing a marathon in every one of those destinations every day– sleeping on economy flights and just doing it again with a good friend, and managing to do it. So I thoroughly enjoy running. Running is my release, running is my drug, yeah, and– yeah, I love it. I love it– it hits.

00:37:02 Aleksandra King: I'm with you. I think that's incredible, by the way, to do that. What a– what a life experience. Who can say that? Not many people. I feel like marathons probably aren't that healthy, so I wouldn't push my body like that. I love running– I'll run 8 and a half k comfortably on trails every day, no problem. But if you're talking about 42 km– it's a– 42 and a bit or something, is it?

00:37:25 Ian Stringer: Yeah– [unclear: 42.1?]– yeah.

00:37:27 Aleksandra King: I just– how is that healthy?

00:37:29 Ian Stringer: I just think it's a real test, because it's only you– but it's also you against your head. You can read a little bit into that as well, yeah.

00:37:36 Aleksandra King: On that– I had a bit of a health scare, and– and it turned out– and that exercise– because I am quite obsessive with things, so I became obsessive with the whole exercise thing, and I will do– I'll push myself. It's like what you're saying– because, like, come on, don't be a wimp, and keep going, keep going, even though your body is saying, maybe don't do that. So I'm now, through this health thing, a bit more cautious what I do with exercise. Obviously I'm still obsessed– that will never change– but I'm a bit more mindful of the signals my body is sending me, and be like, just watch that. The whole David Goggins thing– I love that stuff– come on, man, I love that, I love that whole control-your-mind thing– but at the same time, watch out, because your body could be sending you some little red flags there, and maybe you just need to also be a little bit kinder. Maybe look into it– maybe don't completely go nuts with exercise. That's just a personal lesson.

00:38:33 Ian Stringer: No, I agree. I think listening to your body is really important, and I think that's an important message to ensure– anybody that's exercising, or is the other end of the scale and isn't, and needs to exercise and should, or is consuming too much of something– again, it goes back to, fundamentally, what I wish my mum would have done, which is listen to her body. Her body was saying stop– she didn't. Your body, when you're exercising, might be saying stop, and you might need medical attention, because there might be an issue somewhere. I would always say, listen to your body. We're all blessed with this incredible biological feat of engineering. It will give you cues, it will give you messages– listen to them. Don't let them go unnoticed.

00:39:12 Aleksandra King: Oh, Ian, it's been fantastic having you on. Thank you so much for your honesty, thank you for being open with us, thank you for sharing your stories, thank you for swerving around the stories that– were crazy– you didn't want to approach. I thank you for coming on, and I'm sure that people will find meaning in what we've discussed today.

00:39:30 Ian Stringer: Thank you. I hope so.