Confidence, Tattoos & the Art of Being Unapologetic | Lewis Ellis

Cold open

00:00:00 Aleksandra King: Lewis Ellis– this is an interesting one. Never have I ever met anyone with a tattoo of Lord Sugar's face on their bicep, but that is how far Lewis went to get his revenge on Lord Sugar for some of the things that Lord Sugar called him. This is a very interesting interview. We want to get into the arguments he's had, the public spats with Lord Sugar. We want to get into his brain, because he is a fascinating, mad, weird and wonderful individual. Lewis is also a really unusual character that does a lot of strange things– for example, he travelled all the way to Qatar to track down his stolen AirPods, and actually found them. He's had a lot of public feuds with Lord Sugar. Lord Sugar's been really mean to him online, and Lewis has been really mean back to Lord Sugar. If you want to know exactly how mean they were, you've got to tune in and find out.

Interview

00:00:59 Aleksandra King: So I'm so happy to have you on. In researching your background I've dug up quite a lot of things, but just before we get into all of that, I can probably safely say that you're known for being very bold, very unapologetic. You made it to the final five–

00:01:18 Lewis Ellis: Yeah.

00:01:18 Aleksandra King: –on The Apprentice.

00:01:19 Lewis Ellis: That's right.

00:01:19 Aleksandra King: You're the owner of Hustle Marketing, so you're doing pretty well, you're pretty entrepreneurial.

00:01:24 Lewis Ellis: Surviving.

00:01:25 Aleksandra King: Yeah. You're very good at, I think, your personal branding, which I want to get into a bit more, and you're also known for quite a public spat with Lord Sugar himself.

00:01:38 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– he's on my arm, actually. I'll talk about it in a bit.

00:01:40 Aleksandra King: Show us– is he on your arm actually?

00:01:42 Lewis Ellis: He's there. I won the battle but I lost the war.

00:01:46 Aleksandra King: It looks a lot like– it looks a lot like it– creepy. I would be really scared to see him on my– it would give me, yeah, anxiety.

00:01:54 Lewis Ellis: At 21 years old I was pretty lost. I didn't know what I wanted to achieve in life, didn't know where I was going to go. I was running around, and every time I'd come home and try and get settled into some sort of career, [unclear: to free count?] and go travel. So anyway, at 21 I'd met some business owners in a ski resort, and those guys instilled the faith in me that I could potentially be an entrepreneurial sort of person– I don't really settle into a role, and I'm always trying to create things and do things. So I would say that I'm just a guy who at 21 decided I wanted to be a business owner of some sort, and ever since then I've been doing everything I can in my power to make it a reality. But it has to be something that I'm passionate and interested with.

00:02:32 Aleksandra King: Tuning in– what do you think they can gain from you? What would you–

00:02:37 Lewis Ellis: I think the value that I bring to the table– we can talk about marketing, but that's pretty boring, to be honest– if you want to talk about that, hit me up. We can talk about the realisations at different points in my life, and the adaptations that I've made to make things happen. You just mentioned about my friends, for example– I just cut out every single person that I know and have associated with for the last 10 years. I literally just put in the group chat– guys, it's over, we're not talking anymore.

00:03:00 Aleksandra King: You cut them off?

00:03:00 Lewis Ellis: Cos I realised that they weren't the right crowd to be around me anymore.

00:03:03 Aleksandra King: Stop.

00:03:03 Lewis Ellis: So there's stuff like that we can talk about– or, like I said, I'm just someone who's doing everything within my power to make my business a success. My business is very different, and I'm trying to maintain that. I think the value someone might take from listening to me talk– I haven't quite made it yet, I've not made millions yet, but my business has been around for 4 years– I'm in my fifth year now– it is getting more successful year on year, we're bringing in bigger clients. And you've got to ask yourself– if I'm a tattooed guy who comes across– and some people hate me, some people love me– then how am I getting these clients, and how am I still growing? And I think there's value to be had in that story.

00:03:32 Aleksandra King: Do you know what I think the value is to have you on, why I brought you on? Cos no one else would do it– no, I'm joking. I think your thing is that you're pretty confident. You're confident, but you're confident in a way that you're very accepting of exactly who you are at the core. You've got quite a sensible view of yourself, and with that comes a lovely level, I think, of confidence– and I think anyone watching you could learn from that sort of confidence.

00:04:05 Lewis Ellis: It often gets misconstrued. People like to call me arrogant– when I was younger, because it was a confidence without achieving anything. But now it's the mindset of– people's perceptions of me is changing. They're like– oh, he said he's going to do these things, and he's doing these things.

00:04:18 Aleksandra King: Yeah. So I suppose I also think the other thing that they'll get from you is you're pretty entertaining, and that's what I got when I–

00:04:25 Lewis Ellis: Today I'm tired.

00:04:26 Aleksandra King: No– you're entertaining still. You're pretty funny– I saw your online stuff. You're a big character, you're a big personality, you've got a big personal brand.

00:04:34 Lewis Ellis: I've been losing weight recently.

00:04:36 Aleksandra King: I'm talking– I just called you– I'm talking about your personality.

00:04:38 Lewis Ellis: Oh– personality– sorry.

00:04:39 Aleksandra King: I'm talking about your personality. And it's an important thing to have a personality, let's be honest. And you can have a– there's different colours of personality, there's all different wavelengths of personality– but if you have that personality, it turns out that's a big thing in life. It just– it opens doors– fact. And I think that people can probably learn that from you today.

00:05:01 Lewis Ellis: Yeah. You know what– I think I've got this really heightened sense of self-awareness that I didn't have 10 years ago now, and I'm constantly assessing and critical of myself– so much so that I'll always make these minor tweaks and changes wherever possible. And I'll sit there and go– I'm my own biggest critic. And I think a lot of people are their own biggest critic, but then they don't really change anything. So maybe there's something there around the fact that whatever you're trying to work on, wherever you're trying to go, you can work and make changes at any point in your life.

00:05:27 Aleksandra King: Yeah. Okay– so when I went on this– cos obviously you're on The Apprentice and everything, and I was on The Apprentice, so it's interesting to me, these different characters– but then I look at what they've done outside of The Apprentice, and I see how they've carried themselves. Are they present on social media, aren't they– cos some definitely don't want anything to do with that whole world– fame, whatever. But I have to say, watching you on The Apprentice, the initial sort of thought was– yes, the confidence, maybe slight arrogance– but then I saw your hair transplant video– I hope you don't mind me talking about that.

00:05:57 Lewis Ellis: Oh, yeah.

00:05:57 Aleksandra King: And when I saw that, I actually thought– okay, he's not taking himself too seriously, he's not afraid to talk about his weaknesses, he's not afraid to admit he's vulnerable. So there's a story there.

00:06:08 Lewis Ellis: Actually, it's the last time I cried.

00:06:09 Aleksandra King: What– what's the story?

00:06:10 Lewis Ellis: I don't know why– I never, ever cry, and it's really worrying, actually. I need a therapist– but I'm avoiding you if you are one– I'm avoiding you, just know that. I feel like I'm a tinderbox waiting to go up. Anyway– at the time I was scrolling through social media, and there was a little girl with cancer, and everyone was shaving their head off in solidarity with her to raise money and awareness. And I was just– I was chatting away, and I was like– I'm going to shave my head tonight. And they were like– what? And I went home– I don't know why I did it– I just did it straight away. I posted the video, cos at the time my videos were doing quite well on TikTok, to try and give it more oomph. And then I was like– holy crap, my hairline's awful. And so I was talking to a guy who had a business connecting people to people in the UK– like brain surgeons who do it in the part-time and stuff– and he was like– do you want to do it? And I was like– yeah, why not. Like, why not– now I'm 30– I think I was 20– no, I was 30– so why not. And then I was sharing the story, and I actually get loads of guys reaching out to me. Like– I'm not a vain guy– I don't really give a [expletive]– 90% of the time I'm in my pyjamas– but it made me feel much, much more confident, cos I've never had this slight part here.

00:07:04 Aleksandra King: It was interesting– you noticed it, and then you said that– and then it made you more self-conscious, I think.

00:07:08 Lewis Ellis: I thought I was going to– I was like– oh crap, that's not good. And then it passed that point. The amount of guys– especially business owners– that reach out to me, ask me questions all the time about it.

00:07:17 Aleksandra King: Okay– so for people watching– cos I have guys and things on my Instagram– anyone thinking about it– should they do it? How scary is it, how expensive is it?

00:07:26 Lewis Ellis: This is the thing– so I only had the corners of my head done, the sides, cos I wanted a straight hairline– so I didn't really have receding hair or anything like that. If you are thinking about it– go for it. It makes you feel better, and you feel better– you're going to be more successful, you're going to push yourself, you're going to feel more confident walking into a room, and all that sort of stuff. The amount of guys that reach out to me– and they've been worried about it for years– it's crazy, and it really impacts them. So if girls get it done– you can get your hair done– it's as simple as that.

00:07:51 Aleksandra King: I agree, and I think it's right– it doesn't mean you're vain or anything. It means you've got respect to invest in yourself, and you know that how you look does affect how you act.

00:08:00 Lewis Ellis: It does– and why not be more confident? I think guys have a hard time. Think Jeff Bezos– do you think Jeff Bezos' hair just grew back on its own? Elon Musk–

00:08:10 Aleksandra King: Elon Musk looks fabulous, by the way.

00:08:11 Lewis Ellis: I think whatever treatments he's been doing– go for it– hair, 1,000%. Look at Jeff Bezos in 2000, look at Elon Musk in 2000– and look at them in 2024, and tell me they've not both had their hair done.

00:08:21 Aleksandra King: I think– who's the other one I noticed– oh god, the guy off High School Musical–

00:08:24 Lewis Ellis: Zac Efron.

00:08:25 Aleksandra King: Yeah– Zac Efron. His hair was fading, and then it came back stronger.

00:08:28 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– I'm 100%.

00:08:29 Aleksandra King: I think that's– you know what– my brother had ears that sort of stuck out like that, and my mum was like– listen– and we're kids at that point– she was like– listen, you've got these ears that kids tease you and everything– do you want to get it done? And he was like– yeah, sure. That made a huge difference to his life.

00:08:43 Lewis Ellis: Yeah. I draw the line at things where, for example, I've got friends who will just do lipo instead of going to the gym– like, I draw the line at that, cos I can just go to the gym. But like straightening your nose, growing boobs, doing your hair– you can't do those. Hey– you women dye it, cut it, you get extensions and things– and I feel like men have a hard time if they want to do the hair transplant thing.

00:09:01 Aleksandra King: I think absolutely– yeah, why not. I think go for it. So you've got this confident, no-nonsense persona– and what's the dark side people don't see?

00:09:12 Lewis Ellis: I used to go out a lot and drink and party with my friends too much– but that's cos it's been a part of my life since I was, like, 17 years old. And I reflected on this probably in August– my birthday– I was 34, and I realised that 17 years had passed. So I started drinking when I was, like, 15– but, like, 17 years when I could start going out. So for 17 years I've been drinking and partying and going to all these events, and going to all these influencer things– when I– after The Apprentice thing–

00:09:33 Aleksandra King: How much are you drinking? What are you drinking?

00:09:35 Lewis Ellis: No– not like I'm drinking every day– but I'm on about– I'll go out on a weekend and I'll be hammered on Friday. It's no different to how– it's just the norm in where I'm from– north of– north– I guess it's the same down here, but in Manchester everyone goes out and parties on the weekend, and they get drunk and hungover, and then you deal with it for two or three days. And I just thought at 34– I was like– it's been 17 years, I'm over this. Like– when I was a holiday rep, it was a big part of my life. I worked in nightclubs and bars when I was younger as well, in the UK– so all the time around me, I was doing bar crawls, booze cruises, boat parties–

00:10:00 Aleksandra King: But you're not doing drugs at this–

00:10:01 Lewis Ellis: No– I wasn't. When I was younger I've done drugs– of course I've done drugs– when I was older– everyone has.

00:10:05 Aleksandra King: What– no–

00:10:06 Lewis Ellis: But most of Manchester has, yeah. But I just thought to myself that I'm 34, and I'm like– I'm over this now– and I reflect on it. So I said the probably darkest side of me was going out and drinking too much. I really do wear my heart on my sleeve– I just– I'm who I am, do you know what I mean?

00:10:22 Aleksandra King: How did you stop this?

00:10:23 Lewis Ellis: Honestly, god– it was just, for me, a moment of realisation. I was at a festival with my friends, and we'd been drinking all weekend, and I just thought– I'm over this. I literally woke up the next day and I said– I'm going, guys– and I left the group chat. The next day I told them all that I'm just– I'm going to be doing my own thing from now on.

00:10:38 Aleksandra King: Oh, wow.

00:10:38 Lewis Ellis: And it's not because– they're not to blame. It's just– they're my friends from school, from, like, younger– 10 years ago– and I've changed in those 10 years. And I don't want to put them down– they're great guys– but most of the socialising is done around alcohol and partying and going out and drinking.

00:10:52 Aleksandra King: Yeah– if you're in that crowd, you're going to get sucked– but that is the– that's the crowd everyone's in– as if– you're sober there, it's weird.

00:10:58 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– but even where I'm from, like, most people are in that crowd, and they just cling to friends because they're their friends. They stay with their friends from school. And I just thought– it's like when people become work friends, and you go out with work friends– and then when you change jobs, they're not your friends anymore. I didn't want friends of circumstance or necessity. I'd like to choose who I want to be friends with, and I'd like to surround myself with the five people who I want to be like– because if I can do that, then I know that I'll become the sixth.

00:11:20 Aleksandra King: As a teenager and whatever, and growing up, I would go out with my friends, and I did find that a significant number of them– with– okay– alcohol, whatever– everyone was drinking. But when it came, like, the drug side of things– they would take that to have that extra confidence, and they would take that to have that extra energy– and especially if you're, like, going partying the whole night in the nightclub and everything, they would take these drugs to sustain them through. And I just– I don't know– I feel like, for me– I always thought that if I went into any of those sorts of drugs– cos I'm, like, naturally, like, mad and hyperactive– I just thought I would probably die. I'd probably have a heart attack really quickly. I can't even have a Red Bull. When I saw these guys drinking that– and I could party with them, but I did it naturally. I'm sure that they could also do it naturally– but I think it's a psychological thing, isn't it?

00:12:09 Lewis Ellis: I think it's just the norm in Manchester especially– it's just the norm. Every single person– like, I would go network events, and one of the first questions people are asking is– who's getting a bag in?

00:12:19 Aleksandra King: Okay– I don't want my daughter going to Manchester Uni– no–

00:12:21 Lewis Ellis: It's not that– it's just– I don't know– it's just a city that– Birmingham's no different. Like– I meet business owners from Birmingham, London and Manchester, and they're all the same– half of them will be hardcore party animals who go out and do drugs, the other half maybe just don't drink, full stop, and therefore don't fall foul of that. But I think in Manchester especially it's just a norm– it's almost seen as drinking now. But again– that's a reflection– I think it is the norm. I think I personally just decided– I'm over that life. Like– I know it sounds silly– this is a realisation that came not just overnight. I've been thinking, for– since I started my business– oh, I need to get my [expletive] together, cos I don't have a job anymore– I can go out and party whenever I want– I'm going out on Tuesday night. But then after the first year of business, I'm like– running myself out– burnt out. Second year, I'm like– I need to calm down with the drinking and partying. And by year four, I'm going– I just can't physically do it. I can't.

00:13:07 Aleksandra King: You probably would have– look what happened to Liam Payne. It just carries on, doesn't it– it just carries on. If you are getting into it fully, then that's the result, isn't it?

00:13:15 Lewis Ellis: Also– you've got to remember that it's very few people that are well-known drug users that maintain a level of success– it's very few– I can't think of many. The one I can think of is the guy from Wolf of Wall Street– and even he went to prison in the end. So I would say–

00:13:29 Aleksandra King: He's out now– he's doing quite well, yeah.

00:13:31 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– ripping people off again. But I would say that if you look at the playing the odds– that's what I did when I was younger– I looked at playing the odds. All right– I was a runaway, basically, who went travelling the world, and I thought– if I don't go to university, I might not get this job– and I might lose to this other candidate who has a degree– but if I get a degree, then we're on the same level. So I've always been trying to play the odds in life. And now I'm older, I'm going– why would I put all that effort in when I'm younger, to get these degrees and qualifications that I don't care about– I just did it to get on par with everyone else and be perceived to be the same as everyone else– to then ruin it and put myself lower– energy– hungover for two or three days, not wanting to work on a Monday, Tuesday? I want to work Monday to Sunday. I want to be on the game 24/7, 7 days a week– and I couldn't do that. Tell you what, though– since I've quit drinking full stop– we're in October now– and my energy is through the roof. I'm back at the gym, working out constantly, and I can work.

00:14:17 Aleksandra King: I see your Apple Watch– I can see– monitoring.

00:14:19 Lewis Ellis: Yeah. And I'm way ahead of myself in my workload– usually I'm always behind, but now I'm ahead of everything.

00:14:24 Aleksandra King: Nice.

00:14:24 Lewis Ellis: So I can't see how that's not going to benefit me.

00:14:27 Aleksandra King: Do you feel like some of the controversies that you've had have overshadowed your business side, or do you think it goes hand in hand with it?

00:14:34 Lewis Ellis: No– I don't really care about anything like that. Like– I couldn't care less if you like me or hate me– I'm going to be a success regardless. My entire life people have told me what I'm doing is wrong– really– so what is the difference? There's not– I wouldn't say anything controversial– it's not like I've sacrificed a sheep on a farm.

00:14:51 Aleksandra King: Oh– that's [unclear: washy?]–

00:14:52 Lewis Ellis: It's not– it's not like I've done anything super crazy. I've not gone on a bender and Grand Theft Auto across London and stuff.

00:14:58 Aleksandra King: Some of the things that you've done have to be– like– some of the things that you've done– probably if I did that, my parents would have a heart attack.

00:15:03 Lewis Ellis: Yeah, that's it– my mum always has a heart– my mum's used to it– heart attacks– yeah, she's used to it. But you've got to remember– there's one thing that's very different, I think, about me to other people– is, yes, I've always believed in just doing things and seeing what happens. And so what I mean by that is– as a kid I would come up with an idea– I got arrested when I was 14 for stealing a dumper truck. I did– I planned a heist– I got the whole school involved, I gave everyone walkie-talkies, I had a map, I learned how to drive using the internet– but– all because it started cos I found a key on the floor. So I had this creative brain that allows me to go– run away with me– and sometimes I didn't know how to harness that as a kid, because obviously it was just me coming up with ideas and getting everyone to come together and rally around them. Fun project– but yeah, it's naughty. At the time you would think– wow, he got arrested– you're not allowed to hang out with him, he's naughty. But as an adult, my job is now to get creative, come up with these wild ideas and make them a reality– when they don't seem to make any sense, make all the pieces fit. So I don't think there's anything really that I've done that I regret at all.

00:15:58 Aleksandra King: It's wild– it's wild in that way– it's supposed to be, cos it's marketing.

00:16:01 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– I built a business around the person I am.

00:16:04 Aleksandra King: I think you have.

00:16:06 Lewis Ellis: If I didn't, I wouldn't fit in anywhere.

00:16:08 Aleksandra King: You have. So– you've called yourself The Apprentice's most trolled star–

00:16:14 Lewis Ellis: Oh– the press write like that–

00:16:15 Aleksandra King: –even by Lord Sugar, who joined in with savage jibes online when he watched you on a task. Do you stand by that?

00:16:22 Lewis Ellis: So first things first– if you know anything about the press, they'll just write whatever they want. So any kind of headline with anything that says I apparently said something is probably–

00:16:29 Aleksandra King: So do you think you were the most trolled star or not?

00:16:31 Lewis Ellis: No– I never said that.

00:16:32 Aleksandra King: But– you never said it?

00:16:33 Lewis Ellis: No– what– I don't even use the word troll. But what I would say is– I definitely got abuse for tattoos, and I definitely felt really sad for a long time, because that story came out.

00:16:42 Aleksandra King: What was it?

00:16:43 Lewis Ellis: It was because I was talking about tattoos and how it impacted me– and I was like– mentally, there's a successful person who's a billionaire literally putting you down in front of millions of people. I felt like crap. But I didn't say I was the most trolled person in the world. Do I think I was? No.

00:16:58 Aleksandra King: Okay– can we go back to– are you okay to go back to what he said?

00:17:02 Lewis Ellis: Yeah, yeah– I can't remember much.

00:17:03 Aleksandra King: Okay. Lord Sugar wrote on Twitter at the time– publicly, in front of–

00:17:07 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– followers.

00:17:08 Aleksandra King: –so– Lewis, your tattoos are horrific. Tell me where I'm missing the point.

00:17:14 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– what does he look like– [unclear: Christian Mark?]. So the story starts– we're at a lake in Finland, and the water is disgusting– smells– like– this is their filming location. And none of the girls want to get in the water. The producers are telling them to put these bikinis on and get in the water– obviously what the producers want to do– they want to create a story, and they want to make it sexy and sizzling– so they're trying to get the girls in bikinis. The girls are all throwing their toys out of the pram, saying– no way we're doing that– and we've been eating for weeks– disgusting, dirty water. So I was like– I'll just do it. I'll throw some shorts on and I'll get in the water– if I die, I get ill, whatever. So I'm running around on the episode in these horrible red shorts– and long story short is– I didn't want to get my body out– I didn't– but I just thought I'd rather do it than they do it– cos we know millions of people are going to watch it, right? So anyway, I did that– and then randomly, when the episode airs, he just tweets that out. Yeah– I was driving at the time, I remember.

00:17:59 Aleksandra King: And you responded with something along the lines of– no one has the right to judge you or your body.

00:18:05 Lewis Ellis: Yeah, yeah.

00:18:05 Aleksandra King: Why was that statement important to you?

00:18:08 Lewis Ellis: And bear in mind the story I've just told– we knew at the time that it was going to be aired on TV, and that millions of people watch it. And then the girls were saying, like– we don't want to be judged for our bodies and splashed across the media like this. So that was the conversation that we'd had, and it was in my head. So when he tweeted that, I just thought– who are you to judge someone else's appearance? That's what I thought. Anyway– I didn't actually tweet back to him either– I just wrote it on my Twitter. I didn't even bother replying to him, because I just didn't see it as worth–

00:18:30 Aleksandra King: But you got quite a good response.

00:18:32 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– because– why wouldn't you? If I just went– that girl's fat– on TV, and I wrote it on Twitter, then what would happen? Like– people are going to go– who are you to judge that person? So– just because you're older, or richer, or whatever– you're from a different generation– doesn't excuse you from judging someone. And I'm far from a snowflake as well.

00:18:50 Aleksandra King: So you did that– you stood up for yourself– fair play, fair play to you. Brave. Okay– he came back with– Lewis, your tattoos tell a story. What are you– a Kindle?

00:19:02 Lewis Ellis: Yeah, yeah.

00:19:03 Aleksandra King: You have the right to do what you want to your body– so he's acknowledging that you have the right to do what you want with your body– he says– I have the right to my opinion. I say they're horrible. When you're 50, on the beach, you'll wear a t-shirt. You'll be an embarrassment to your kids. I think that's really harsh, right?

00:19:21 Lewis Ellis: It's not even harsh– it's just like–

00:19:22 Aleksandra King: I think it's harsh.

00:19:23 Lewis Ellis: I wouldn't even say it's harsh– I would say it's just being a– do you not agree? Cos you've basically– said something– I've said something– and then he's– goes– double down on his point, and gone– I'm going to continue doing this for no reason. Anyway– you can tell he doesn't write his own jokes, cos that wasn't funny. What are you– a Kindle– it's like– who even uses a Kindle in 2020? Also– the next part, where he's saying– I have the right to an opinion– 100%– everyone has a right to an opinion– but we don't have the right to listen– we don't have to listen. I don't have to listen to your opinion. You have the right to shout it as much as you want around your own house– but the moment you start shouting it at me, I've got a right to respond.

00:19:54 Aleksandra King: Did– why– was there something else between you guys, that he came up to you in that way? So he's never spoken to you– he just literally went off at you?

00:20:01 Lewis Ellis: The only time we spoke was during the show, when he was usually bollocking me– or just talking for 2 seconds– as you will know– you don't get to communicate with him. So yeah– for me, I was pretty stunned– mainly because the reason why I got upset at the time is because this is a guy I've looked up to a long time. So bear in mind– like– when I was younger– didn't know what I wanted to do at 20– so I read all these business books, and his was one of them– autobiography– and I felt like I connected with that story of a guy from no money building up.

00:20:27 Aleksandra King: But that actually– it's one of those, isn't it– like– you just don't expect the person that you think is amazing as well–

00:20:32 Lewis Ellis: No– yeah. Look– if he's more conservative– he doesn't like the tattoos– that's okay. But he does need to understand the power and impact that he has. I don't know– he's playing into his own brand of being, like– I'm super critical and formal and conservative– or whatever.

00:20:46 Aleksandra King: But yeah– I think he owes you an apology.

00:20:47 Lewis Ellis: I think– I think he– so I think it's quite common knowledge that he drinks a lot and tweets on Twitter– and then he usually gets himself in all sorts of trouble.

00:20:55 Aleksandra King: And then you responded– I thought your response was the best thing you could have ever said– cos you just said– OK Boomer.

00:20:59 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– literally.

00:21:00 Aleksandra King: That made a lot of headlines.

00:21:01 Lewis Ellis: Because– yeah– it's cos it's really topical– at the time it was pretty topical. But yeah– literally.

00:21:06 Aleksandra King: But he's forgetting– while he's writing that, he's insulting thousands of people who have got tattoos who are over 50– and obviously those people have got kids, and they're like– what the fuck?

00:21:16 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– he is, actually– yeah.

00:21:18 Aleksandra King: And they were there– they were present on Twitter, and they joined in– and it was just– wow. I don't think– it's harsh to go after you in that way– nothing happened between you guys, and he just went and savaged you online.

00:21:31 Lewis Ellis: And also– that then skewed the experience for me. Cos up to that point I'm like– okay– it's a bit annoying– it's a bit like a prison, cos you're locked in there all the time– but apart from that, it was fine. It was tiring, it was eating crap food, you didn't get to sleep, and it was hot– like– stressful– but apart from that– okay, I can put up with that. But then to start getting abuse randomly online– like– from someone who's supposed to be, like, a prominent, prolific business owner– that was a bit like– this is now– why have I– why– I didn't sign up for that. Do you know what I mean?

00:21:58 Aleksandra King: Yeah. Do you think he'd– he'll apologise?

00:22:00 Lewis Ellis: No– why would he? I think he's just one of those guys that's always been that way and will never change. But you know what– who cares.

00:22:05 Aleksandra King: Look– it's okay to be– he's got his personality, doesn't he– he's got his brand– that's a bit harsh or whatever– but I think, like, when you overstep that, then you probably should say sorry.

00:22:13 Lewis Ellis: You– maybe– I did– I think he should. You say I'm unapologetic– I've apologised to people who I've upset or offended by accident– if I've not realised I've done it, I'll personally message them and stuff like that.

00:22:22 Aleksandra King: Yeah. I think Lord Sugar a lot reminds me of my dad– my dad's also quite a strict, conservative guy like that, and he'll speak his mind or whatever. But, like, with him I'll be like– Dad, that's hurtful– if I've been– you need to apologise– and I'll sulk and be stroppy and all– and then he'll apologise or whatever. I think sometimes you can bring them to say sorry. I think– Apprentice brand, if they're watching– they should– he should extend his heartfelt apology to you– for making you feel so bad– not for his– he's allowed to his own opinion– but for doing it in the way he did it– publicly.

00:22:48 Lewis Ellis: I was going to say– I think there's one thing that makes me feel like it was a bit of a– on everything– is because he was almost doing that– he was almost trying to treat me like I was just someone there to be on TV. But you're forgetting– he's– obviously– if you'd understood– you don't know this at the time– but for the last 8 years I've been trying to build a business. I've been trying to learn about business– I've been reading every book I can, going to every seminar I could, speaking to every business owner, interviewing them on YouTube– and then I went and started freelancing, and I was trying to build a business. All my life I've been building towards this moment, and I thought– this could be the chance to start a business. And I feel like it was almost just like he assumed that I was just some guy pretending to be on TV– but that was the least of my concerns. All I wanted to do was build.

00:23:32 Aleksandra King: As, like, I say to anyone that I've had on the podcast that are ex-Apprentice candidates– the Apprentice brand looks after the Apprentice brand and Lord Sugar's brand, and those are the priorities. And the Apprentice candidates– you're on your own, and you've got to find your way– and then still come out of it and try and run a business– get a– you know– continue. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it really goes against you, sometimes it helps– you know– it varies. But they're not there to look after you.

00:23:56 Lewis Ellis: I was about– for– those brands are dead in the water. The Apprentice is on its– no one watched it. It's not even boring– it's just crap. Have you tried watching it? It's actually crap. And then on top of that– Lord Sugar's brand is that he's just some angry guy– that's his brand now, that's his legacy– I think– with respect for everything he's achieved. But just because you achieve something doesn't mean you have to become a dick.

00:24:18 Aleksandra King: OnlyFans. So after your spat with Lord Sugar, you went on OnlyFans.

00:24:22 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– as a link onto the story of the– no one has a right to judge your body. I thought it was– I thought it was funny, actually.

00:24:27 Aleksandra King: What came first– with the tattoo– okay, wait– okay– so after the spat, the tattoo came first. Was that revenge to him?

00:24:33 Lewis Ellis: No– it was– think about this, right– I've got a marketing agency– I do PR stunts and publicity stunts, right? So what can I do– if I've got a guy– give me tattoo– or get a face picture of his– and to be fair, my actual tattoos are like– bits of them are all things that have happened.

00:24:46 Aleksandra King: How do you feel that he's inked into your skin– his image is inked into your skin because of what he said?

00:24:52 Lewis Ellis: I don't think he thought twice.

00:24:52 Aleksandra King: Why don't you take a photo of the tattoo and send it to him?

00:24:56 Lewis Ellis: Oh– he– him– when he'll apologise– I think– I think that's five–

00:25:01 Aleksandra King: No– but– no, but I'm thinking, like–

00:25:03 Lewis Ellis: If you live in the past, then you're never–

00:25:05 Aleksandra King: No– no– but it's a problem– that's on your skin.

00:25:07 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– but who cares? It's part– all of these things are different things that happened to me.

00:25:10 Aleksandra King: Oh– it's a publicity stunt. So do you like it– what do you think?

00:25:12 Lewis Ellis: I would assume that he's seen it– but then– and then the OnlyFans thing came next, where I was just like– what else can I do to get some attention here?

00:25:19 Aleksandra King: Wow– okay– yeah. So you did that– that's– that's another–

00:25:22 Lewis Ellis: Yeah, man.

00:25:23 Aleksandra King: Okay– so as a business guy– cos you just said it yourself– and then you went on OnlyFans– like– how did you connect the two and take that risk? Like– how did you go– I'm business guy, I'm going to do OnlyFans? Like– what in your mind took you to the two– and why did you think it was going to work– and did it work?

00:25:39 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– of course. We do PR stunts– so I'm looking for opportunities to go– how can I grab attention and bring it over to what I'm doing? So Lord Sugar wants to talk about The Apprentice– The Apprentice wants to talk about The Apprentice– I want to talk about what I'm doing now. So I want to keep dragging people back to– good– to us and to what I'm doing– and that's never changed. So it's quite good in my head– right– at this time– so I was 28 when I was on The Apprentice, so this played when I was 29. Covid was hitting, and my job had just been taken away from me, and I had no way of surviving– literally no way. No one was hiring people– I couldn't get furlough. So– a lot of people in the same situation– with millions– fell through this crack, where if you just changed jobs recently, you couldn't get furlough. So I was eligible for whatever the jobseeker's thing is called now– or go work at a supermarket. So I was thinking– I've got no money in the bank, so I might as well try– yeah– I might as well try and start a business. At the time everyone was setting up OnlyFans accounts– so I thought– I'll do that. And actually– fun enough– loads of people came through, and that actually allowed me to start my business– survive until I could start my business– and drags people through to– what is he doing now? And the same thing with the tattoo stunt– it was to bring people across from this story about negative tattoos to– we do PR stunts. Cos in my head I was thinking– I'm going to build a marketing agency in the future– I want to do PR stunts, I want to do experiential things, I want to grab attention in the most weird and wonderful ways. So I was trying to start doing things like that, because I thought I'd use them in my portfolio– but to be honest, I've not had to.

00:27:02 Aleksandra King: So how long were you on there for– how long?

00:27:04 Lewis Ellis: Oh– like– only a couple months, literally– and then I just closed the account.

00:27:07 Aleksandra King: How was it?

00:27:08 Lewis Ellis: No– people– only– OnlyFans, by the way, doesn't mean you have to get your dick out and wave it around– people are just on there just sharing normal clothes shots. But the perception of the name OnlyFans was why I did it– cos everyone's naked on there, right?

00:27:17 Aleksandra King: Yeah. So you didn't– and then you got tired of it– or what?

00:27:20 Lewis Ellis: No– I didn't need it. I just did it– set it up, and then let it drop off, and then moved on. But all my life I'm looking for things like this– all the time.

00:27:26 Aleksandra King: Controversial– that's why I said– so you do controversial things.

00:27:30 Lewis Ellis: I'm trying to get– I'm trying to get attention. My job– it– for a living– my job is to grab attention, and harness that, and project it somewhere. Now that might be increasing views, increasing sales– it might be in people getting job applicants– whatever it is– I have to grab attention in a very noisy world and power it through. And so that's what I do– that's what I was doing, and that's what I continue to do. So it could be anything. It could be– for example– there was another one– there was another company– a friend of mine was doing a campaign– there was– they were working with a client who did sex toys, and they were advertising a job for sex toy tester– and that was the PR campaign– and they asked me to front it. So I'm there with a dildo on Instagram– who wants to be a sex toy tester? And we again use that to– to your– to your advantage. But these campaigns happen all the time– unfortunately the press likes to write about negative and sex– so that's what you go down the lines of.

00:28:19 Aleksandra King: I think your brand is bold in that way, and it is like that– and you've got the tattoos– and you– I think it fits.

00:28:26 Lewis Ellis: That's the thing– it's– you can get away with it. People are getting– people are getting wise to the fact that– if I'm doing something– that– obviously– if you just met me in 2019, 2020, when I was 28, 29, on The Apprentice– if you just heard of me then– it's all new. But if you'd heard of me prior to that, you would know that I've consistently been doing these things. So none of it's different.

00:28:45 Aleksandra King: Not from that world– I get it– it's– I understand PR, comms, marketing– I understand how all of it– it's smart, probably.

00:28:53 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– you have their attention. So a couple of years prior to that, the BBC were reporting that I got lost in Syria– a couple of years before that, I was in the press for swimming in a shopping mall. Yeah– but these are things that– I was like– oh– there's something in this. You can do something– you can grab the attention, you can push it somewhere you want it to go– and that's all a marketer does. So I can't see how that's any different to what I wanted to do for a career.

00:29:16 Aleksandra King: Using your own brand to do– you're risking your brand– or not risking– I don't know– you're using yourself.

00:29:21 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– it's just– to put in these– it is a risk in some– for some of the things– but I don't think so. There's nothing that's going to ever affect– like– unless I do something illegal. And even then– think of the people that do things that are illegal, and then they still come back. Take it to– Wolf of Wall Street guy– before– you said it yourself– he's doing quite well for himself. He's only doing quite well for himself cos he committed such major fraud that he had a movie made about him– and then he harnessed that attention– and now you believe him– salesman– but now you believe him to be a good person– but he's not– he's still ripping people– but people will still buy from him.

00:29:50 Aleksandra King: I watched his wife's podcast– it was really interesting to have her point of view. He's a very difficult man– but what he can do is sell. At the end of the day, all this stuff is sales, isn't it– it's sales.

00:29:58 Lewis Ellis: I think– I think you're good at it or you're not good. I think some people like to be controversial and negative and be infamous– some people– PR firms will try and use controversy to get headlines for their clients. For me– I just do it for fun.

00:30:10 Aleksandra King: Yeah– I think you're having fun. I think you're having fun. So another thing that you've said– you've publicly blasted at the BBC's The Apprentice, claiming you were set up to look like a [expletive]. Were you actually set up?

00:30:22 Lewis Ellis: Yeah. So I will actually– genuinely– it's been years now, I don't think the contract's still relevant– but I will genuinely say that we were made to look like idiots– I'll say it instead of swearing. So– at one point it became– look– so– we know we signed up for this show, where you get to make– look stupid, right? We're more than happy with that. If you make a mistake– call us out– look– make us look stupid– that's fine. What we didn't like was– we were noticing that they were purposely trying to make things happen– moving stuff, causing issues.

00:30:48 Aleksandra King: Yes– yes.

00:30:49 Lewis Ellis: So the producers were getting the runners to purposely get in the way of things, or sabotaging things– or the– it became most apparent when we were on a train, where both teams were on the train together– so really, you could walk from one end to talk to the other end if you really wanted to– but you weren't allowed to communicate– and then they were causing delays and problems. And I lost my rag that day– and I remember Claude literally pulling me to the side, saying– if you lose your [expletive] again at the production crew, Lord Sugar will go mad– so don't do that again. Cos I was like– what the [expletive] is going on here– why? And the problem– that's not a problem either– if you're sabotaging it– fine. The biggest problem for me was that they– it's being– you are gaslit to believe that what you believe is wrong– and they keep telling you that– what– you're imagining it– that's not happening. Do you know what I mean? And then, because you're locked in this space, that starts really playing tricks on you.

00:31:34 Aleksandra King: It messes with your head, yeah.

00:31:35 Lewis Ellis: As a group we came together– and we sat– I remember we sat there– whoever the production person was at the time– and we were just like– this is ridiculous– it's got to stop. We are happy to play a game show– we're happy to look like idiots– we're not happy to be sabotaged. Because you've got to remember– like– at the time I was starting a business– it was fine– but if, for example, I was a successful marketing business owner at that point already, and I've got clients on the outside, and I'm taking part in the show– and then they sabotage you– they can lose you real-life clients– they could really affect your reputation– and that's not okay. In my head, that's not okay.

00:32:06 Aleksandra King: Totally– totally. When I raised these concerns, I used to call them over, and I used to give them the camera piece– camera– and I said– talk directly to them– behind–

00:32:15 Lewis Ellis: Yeah.

00:32:16 Aleksandra King: And I said to them– stop it. You've done this, you've done this, you've done this, you've done this, you've done this– in your documents– this– you stop it. And if you put that scene in, I'm going to walk– and if you do that, I'm going to come after you.

00:32:27 Lewis Ellis: Yeah.

00:32:27 Aleksandra King: And I was always like that. And then once I got out of that– obviously I walked– I was like– I'm not taking this stuff– and I had a lot going on at the time– okay. The comeback was that I'm too analytical– oh– you're just– you're very analytical– because they know that my background was in building systems, implementation and analysing things– so– oh, you're very analytical. But yeah– gaslight– interesting– I– I think– interesting term. I remember saying at the time that you've got a room full of people who run their own businesses or want to run their businesses– most of us– some of them– some of them are just for the ride– to be famous, I imagine–

00:33:01 Lewis Ellis: But they were definitely trying to do that– oh yeah.

00:33:02 Aleksandra King: But the majority of the people in the room– I say they're owners– you're trying to make them look like– you're trying to pull the wool over their eyes and gaslight them– it's not going to go down– it's not going to go down well, is it?

00:33:13 Lewis Ellis: Once you get in there– sorry for interrupting– you realise that you're up against– it's not fair anymore– and you're trying to just maintain a reputation as best you can.

00:33:22 Aleksandra King: Cos that– then– that– you realise– wow– yeah, I've been set up, in a way.

00:33:26 Lewis Ellis: I think I enjoyed it at first– it was like– I think it was like an escape room– I enjoy challenges, I enjoy puzzles and stuff like that. I just didn't– again– I just didn't enjoy the– if you go into a casino, and then they say– oh– you have to use this– I don't know– I'll give you an example– like– this specific deck of cards– and you're not allowed to play with anyone else around you apart from these people– and you've got to wear these glasses– and you go– this isn't fair– I want to just play the game. And I just wanted to play the game. I didn't– I understand they're making a TV show– but then there's a level between– okay– naturally letting things happen– and then trying to cause things to happen– waste our time– puts us all down– makes–

00:33:58 Aleksandra King: We've already given up TV– because when you're sitting there watching– you love to watch people fail and be really dumb– and you go– oh, they're so dumb– [unclear: says more?] about society than it does about the show.

00:34:05 Lewis Ellis: By the way– if anyone out there is listening or anything– if you ever want to really prove a point, or want to see if I'm right– let me– doesn't matter what you do for a living– let me come and follow you with a camera for a day– just for a few hours, even– like– 5 hours– I'll film them– and then I'll edit it, and I'll make you look like you are an absolute simpleton. It's very easy.

00:34:24 Aleksandra King: Oh– it is actually very easy– you realise that– the power of editing. You also said that it's like being in a prison. Did you find you were, like, trapped in a prison there?

00:34:31 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– I said it before– but yeah– no– 100%. So you're not allowed to leave the house on your own. You want a haircut– you've got to book it in, and you get to go in a week– okay. You want to go for food or snacks– you can't.

00:34:39 Aleksandra King: But then how did you have a fling?

00:34:41 Lewis Ellis: Oh– that was while we were abroad.

00:34:43 Aleksandra King: So– so you– out of the apartment– but you're still on the show?

00:34:46 Lewis Ellis: Yeah, yeah.

00:34:47 Aleksandra King: So they– they didn't follow you around anymore?

00:34:48 Lewis Ellis: Cos we weren't allowed– yeah– of course– they– they locked us in our rooms. I'm– I'm from this sort of background of– if you tell me I'm not allowed to do something, or try and lock me in, I'm going to probably try and break out. So naturally– I'm on the show– they lock me in my hotel room in South Africa– and I'm going– no. In Finland– it was actually both times I got locked in– and I just went– this– and I, like, latched the door open and pegged it so you couldn't open and close it– and then crawled down the corridor past the producers– and then I just went out for the day.

00:35:11 Aleksandra King: Stop.

00:35:12 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– I will not do what you tell me to do. I know it's very childish– but I just– that's kind of part of what I'm about, I think. So– yeah– professional.

00:35:22 Aleksandra King: How do you like being a business owner now?

00:35:24 Lewis Ellis: I don't like it. I think it's hardest thing I've ever done– I think.

00:35:27 Aleksandra King: Hard, isn't it? Yeah.

00:35:28 Lewis Ellis: I think I always thought being a business owner was about creating products and selling a service– creating a product or service and selling it. That's part of it– but actually, once you do sell it– it's managing relationships, it's maintaining yourself– keeping yourself on the ball– time– project– my– my job's– my job majority– project management– and then in there, trying to find room to be creative for the clients– because we're bringing the creativity to the table. It's a whole– so– the last– the first couple of year– first year– it was a culture shock– massive– to me– because I already had freelance experience and I've been working for a long time– so I just thought I knew what I was doing– but massive culture shock on managing relationships. You can't tell people to go [expletive] themselves– can you– you definitely can't shout at them down the phone– I found that out as well. Second year was realising that my time was my– I was hitting capacity– and that's my– so I have to manage my time now to be able to grow. And then now– in year three, and into year four– the focus has been on growing the brand how I want to grow it– the service how I want to grow it– the– what I offer as a specialism– and make it really unique to– it's very different to what anyone else offers out there– and I've been working really hard on that. And then on top of that, I'm managing to– to pull things together– not be scared– like– a lot of things that I'm trying to get really exciting– because every year I learn something new. At the moment it's all about making things happen– like– for example– we flew a drone carrying cocktails to people's houses the other day– and I was like– can you legally carry cocktails by drone? Who do I need– do I need a pilot? Do I need to ask the police– the council? How can I take off– where can I land– and all these. So all the time I'm problem-solving and trying to figure things out– and that– that really lends itself to me as a person.

00:36:57 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– I have been– I've not been– there's literally been no other way. Because don't forget– I lost my job in 2020– so if I wasn't making money, I wouldn't be able to continue living.

00:37:08 Aleksandra King: Yeah– it's hard, because at the end of the day, no matter what business you're doing, you're asking someone else to give you money– and then you're responsible for that thing.

00:37:15 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– I have– I've been able to support myself for the last 4 years pretty comfortably. That's not what I want to do, though. This isn't a– for me– this is not a hobby, this is not a side hustle– I want to grow it massively. And to be honest, the sad thing is– everyone that I've come across– that's not everyone– but most people I've come across that seem to be doing very well in my space have an early-stage investor– rich mum and dad– partner who gave them cash– or a massive credit card. Like– I've not had any of that. I started during Covid– no one wanted to buy marketing– I had to pay the bills regardless– and I've managed to do that since day one. Now I'm at a point where I'm like– actually– we've got this great track record, this great portfolio– we're speaking to these big national brands and international brands now– conversations weren't happening a year ago. I think we're at a tipping point where actually, organically, I'm able to start hiring staff very soon. And I'd love to have investors in, and just overnight grow it– doing all these crazy campaigns– but that's just not the reality for most people– so I have to organically grow it.

00:38:10 Aleksandra King: I would say that's– I– personally– irrelevant to you– because I think everyone's situation is– what other people are doing and how they got there– maybe they did have that, maybe they didn't– it's completely irrelevant. What I would say is actually extremely relevant is which country you're starting a business in– what time you start it– whether it's Covid, or 10 years ago, 15 years ago– if you started, it's completely different to now– because the landscape's changed, competition's changed– the types of things that you put there– the skills that are needed. It's like– now– starting a business now– it's harder, I think, than– I've been reading– I've been reading a lot about– especially in the UK– I was going to say– I've been reading a lot about the UK–

00:38:50 Lewis Ellis: UK laws and stuff like that– the moment I feel like my business isn't welcome in the UK, I'm just going to take it elsewhere. And I know that pretty much every other person I know with a business is looking at leaving the UK.

00:39:01 Aleksandra King: It's the taxes, isn't it?

00:39:02 Lewis Ellis: It's the taxes– and it's not– it doesn't feel very entrepreneurial. When you go, like, to the UAE– you visit– there's, like, a sizzle in there– you almost feel it– you can almost smell the money. You go there– you're like– you feel energised. You go to the States. And you come here, and it's a bit like– and the UK– beaten with a stick– and everything is against you in the UK. They're going to tax water– they're going to tax everything– they tax, tax– the moment I see– it's not– it's like almost an attack on the population. Like– I see speed camera vans every other road now. I personally won't be living in the UK forever. I think I'm lucky to be born here– literally no clue what they're doing– I love the– I couldn't give a [expletive] about the– want to protect it– no– like– I think– look– it's been ruined through a myriad of ways over the last few years, and I think it's been one [expletive] to the next.

00:39:48 Aleksandra King: Yeah.

00:39:48 Lewis Ellis: That wasn't a swear word– that's just an adjective, okay– cluster– However– I will say I'm lucky to be born here. That in itself is more privileged than, what– 99% of the world's population– isn't it something like that? So I'm born in a culture where I can grow a business– I can– I do have house– I can buy food– so that in itself gives me more– about– white straight male– I'm not white, by the way– but I always say I am.

00:40:10 Aleksandra King: What is your–

00:40:11 Lewis Ellis: I'm half Asian.

00:40:12 Aleksandra King: Are you really?

00:40:13 Lewis Ellis: Yeah.

00:40:13 Aleksandra King: No one knows that, though.

00:40:14 Lewis Ellis: Now they do.

00:40:15 Aleksandra King: No– no– tell us, tell us. Ever used that on loan applications? Because diversity– it's awesome.

00:40:20 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– my dad was Asian– but yeah– yeah– I don't really talk about it. But the point is– I'm already lucky compared to most people in the world– so that's great– and I can't bite that– the hand that feeds you. But at the same time– the UK has no support– no– I've tried every single programme I can think of in my area for business support– business growth. The only thing I did get, ages ago, was a– it was a small loan– and that just about covered the bills to survive. And then– to be honest– I'm just– I'm over it. Like– I know a lad in Saudi Arabia who started a cybersecurity company and got given a massive unit to work from– his boardroom is bigger than I've ever seen– and a huge amount of startup capital.

00:40:54 Aleksandra King: Yeah– there does need to be the right landscape– a place where the taxes are nice and low– where you're encouraged to take on employees. Cos now they're making more difficult for you to want to take on a full-time employee– cos they know you get punished if you let them go. And I'm sorry– firing is a real necessity– like– sometimes you've got to fire people, because they just don't fit– and if you keep them on forever, it's just baggage that's going to drag that business– up– the job of every business is to make money– full stop. That is– doesn't matter what you're doing– you need to make money. And if you've got all this baggage, and all these people that are just dragging you down– and it's very difficult to fire them– that just changes everything. But in terms of your experience in business so far– like– what's the biggest mistake you've made?

00:41:34 Lewis Ellis: I think it would be not taking it as serious as I could have. And like I said– I've already alluded to it right at the beginning of the conversation– and for the first year, I just treat it like I was free of a job– when actually I should have been the other way around. I should have been working– I was working twice as hard, don't get me wrong– but then going out and partying with your friends on a Tuesday, and being hung– it's– there's a lot of traps to fall into– okay. The traps that I found were networking– you go to networking things because you believe that might be a way of getting in leads. However– a lot of people go to networking as a way of escaping the realities of the harsh business– the harsh realities of business– so they want to get drunk– they want to get up for an entire 2 days– and they'll all go– there's a lot of alcohol involved, there's a lot of partying involved in the business world– especially media. And that in itself is a trap– because you believe you're networking– so it's not bad– but actually, getting drunk on a Tuesday and being hungover till Thursday is pretty bad for business. So there's the realisation of– I need to– that– now I'm taking life a lot more seriously. I also think the biggest mistake I made in year one was letting everything– like– all my things fade away– like– my things. So what I mean by that is, like– my hobbies– the things I want to learn– the skills. Business is a massive part of your life, and you do feel like you live it every minute of every day– because it's not– it's no longer a job. But I now purposely make time to learn something new every 6 months to a year– and I challenge myself to the most ridiculous things.

00:42:57 Aleksandra King: What are your hobbies– and what– right now– these things that you–

00:43:00 Lewis Ellis: Okay– I'm 4 years in playing guitar, and I'm all right now. I learned to ice skate and started playing ice hockey– I got my own boots. I– obviously I ski, and ride motorcycles– but that's before I started business. Oh– I'm learning German– I have a tutor every Sunday. I'm learning to fly planes.

00:43:15 Aleksandra King: Seriously?

00:43:15 Lewis Ellis: Yeah, man– I'm halfway through my pilot's licence.

00:43:17 Aleksandra King: And you've got a lot of exams–

00:43:18 Lewis Ellis: I've got only two exams left– and I've got– I've got to do another 20 hours, though.

00:43:22 Aleksandra King: Have you always been this, like, quite hectic in life?

00:43:25 Lewis Ellis: It's not hectic– I just– I want to live every moment of life. I wanted to– what– I'll– Thai boxing– I started Thai boxing as well recently. For me, there's so many things that I want to do– and the business is a big part of that– that's one of my biggest goals– but it's not the be-all and end-all. Yeah– that allows other things to happen. But in the first year, I was so focused on– that was my dream and my goal and my ambition– that I forgot all these side things. I can do them now.

00:43:50 Aleksandra King: So to anyone thinking of going on reality TV– would you– would you encourage them to enter that world– or be wary– or what?

00:43:57 Lewis Ellis: I don't know anymore. When I was younger, it was, like, one of my bucket-list things– it was– go to the gym– get big– and then go on a reality show one day– start a business– these were the– I was ticking off. For me it was a bucket-list thing. I think it's a great way to meet great people. You just got to remember that no matter what you do– no matter what show you go on– you're not going to get really to show your story. You just got to have fun with it. I guess if I was going to do another one, I'd want to make sure it's something that is just fun– even if I'm being made to look a [expletive]– or even if it's being edited so I look incompetent– whatever– as long as I'm having fun– cos it's an experience that I wanted to do– then yeah. If it's an experience that you want to do because you're trying to be famous, or you want to be known for something– and then– just– you got to remember that's outside of your control.

00:44:37 Aleksandra King: For me, with the whole reality TV thing, I would say that you've got to be very careful who you give your brand to– because, like you're saying, the editing can make anyone look bad– and I've learned that. I am not– like– it's like– it's such a trust– yeah– the brand– two brands collaborating. Even out there in the business world– you know how it is– and you are a brand, and you're collaborating with another brand– and I would really check the T's and C's. I'd be more careful– and preferably not give my brand to anyone ever again– and own my own content.

00:45:09 Lewis Ellis: There is one thing I would do– what I would do– Dragons' Den– 1,000%– 1,000%. I've got this product idea that's been pissing me off for ages. And the thing is– here's another annoying thing– trying to stay focused on one thing and not let yourself get distracted– yes– but I've got this business idea that's been burning in my head for ages– and I'm trying not to do it, because I want to focus on growing this business first, and then do that. But I would– I'd do Dragons' Den– because no matter how much you edit it– like– you can make it like you fail– you make it like you succeeded– whatever– that is a great opportunity to show something that you have created– and I love that– I love that.

00:45:39 Aleksandra King: Whereas The Apprentice– you don't get that same thing, right? You don't get to talk about your real business– give your real name– you get to say what you do– the only way people find out what you do is if they come to your social media.

00:45:48 Lewis Ellis: Yes– cos the rest of the time, you're being made to look a [expletive].

00:45:50 Aleksandra King: Yeah– true. The other reality show you did was The Great Sex Experiment. Have to be honest– I've never heard of that– so what is it? I've never watched it– I've never heard of what it is.

00:45:58 Lewis Ellis: That was– that was a show where– at the time they were like– oh, we're doing a– like– a dating show. I was annoyed– it was summer– I was having a right– I was just really wound up about business– and I just– I went and joined on. At the time it was called something else– like– random– and then it became that– which is an awful name. Yeah– I didn't really do anything interesting, to be honest– I just drank– partied with all the guys that were there as a cast. It was during Covid as well, so you couldn't really meet anyone– so nothing else to do. Yep– yeah– my story's not very interesting– I got drunk, I snogged an old woman– it made it to the papers.

00:46:26 Aleksandra King: It gave you press– it gave you more– just–

00:46:28 Lewis Ellis: Again– sometimes things don't need to have a reason. Like– I just went– I'm not doing anything– like– why not– what's the worst I can do?

00:46:34 Aleksandra King: Yeah– I really– I like– I like you– in your life– you are– like I said in the beginning– you are really– not– you're unashamed to be yourself. You are happy to take on these risks– they're not risks to you– but to do all these wild things– and it fits your brand. And I think you've definitely got something there with that brand of yours, I feel– I think– I–

00:46:55 Lewis Ellis: But this is the thing– is– some people try to build a brand– and some people try to build a personal brand around what they want to be perceived as– you see some people try to build a brand around what they want to be perceived to be. I have to build a brand and a business around who I am– because if I don't– you're either going to really like me, or you're really not going to like me– I don't care either way– because no matter what happens, I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing– and I'm happy doing that. But if I didn't build my brand around who I am– then if I got a business, and I decide– I know– I'm going to put myself naked on a billboard– that was one of the things we did as well– put myself naked on a billboard– if my brand wasn't me, then that would have kicked back– there'd be consequences– I might lose clients. But because my clients know that's who I am– I could literally streak through– I could go to a– I could go to an awards ceremony and pick up an award with my [expletive] hanging out.

00:47:44 Aleksandra King: No, you couldn't.

00:47:45 Lewis Ellis: I definitely could. I'd probably get arrested– but the point– no– I could do that– but my clients wouldn't leave– because they know that– that I'll be doing it for some sort of marketing purpose– and I think that's a power in itself. And I– but I understand why a lot of people don't like that.

00:47:59 Aleksandra King: Yeah– but listen– you're going to have music artists– and you've got, like, the Taylor Swifts– and then you've got the Amy Winehouses– and you've got the Elton Johns– you've got– these are such different brands– and they are all successful in their own way– and they appeal to their market– and marketing– and you've definitely got a wide section– everyone with tattoos– that's like your–

00:48:21 Lewis Ellis: I think– no– maybe– maybe not– your market– in as– there are– there are rappers who are literal murderers, who are famous and have a huge fan base– even though they've been proven guilty of murdering someone.

00:48:30 Aleksandra King: Yeah– so– if– what's going down–

00:48:32 Lewis Ellis: But if you can murder someone and be successful– and have a– you– you brand that way– and you've murdered someone– I'm pretty sure me doing silly little things whenever I find it funny isn't that bad.

00:48:41 Aleksandra King: Yeah– we don't want to encourage– no– we don't want to encourage–

00:48:44 Lewis Ellis: But if you come at me, I'm going to– no, I'm joking. No– but I did use them– things like that. Yeah– the more that you are yourself, the more pushback you'll notice– because more people are hearing about you. And unfortunately– where– as you grow and you come through that– a lot of time all you hear is the negative– but actually, there's a lot of positive in there. And a lot of time– for me– I find that I get people approach me and say– oh– I saw this happen– and it's almost like you give them the ability to say– I can be myself. I just– I'm just sick of fake. I don't have a telephone voice– you ring me, I'll go– hey– because a telephone voice, to me, is fake. I don't want any fake– any falsehoods. I've got a group chat with all the people that I've met in business– that come to my events– and if they try and post a link to their social media, I'll delete it– because I don't want to have this fake facade of– all this– like each other's– cos we're not– it's not fake– I'm a real person– it's a real connection. I won't come to your house and go– hey, will you like my LinkedIn post for me? I'm just done with the fake.

00:49:33 Aleksandra King: Like– a brand is a brand–

00:49:35 Lewis Ellis: Yeah– I guess you could call what I have a brand– but it's not– it's just me. If you meet me now– sometimes I'm high energy, and sometimes I'm low and tired– but it's going to be me. I'm going to swear by accident constantly– because even though I said I wasn't going to, I don't mean to.

00:49:46 Aleksandra King: And I think it's your brand– it's your brand.

00:49:49 Lewis Ellis: But is it– or is it just me? Is a brand supposed to be just so true to your core values that– that's what people connect with? But unfortunately, we try to manipulate it– because we want people to connect. But if you manipulate it so much so it's not you anymore– then actually– like Lord Sugar– it's a massive disconnect. Like– my impressions and– his perception of who he is as a person, based on his brand, was a massive let down with how he acted online– because it wasn't, in my eyes, who he was.

00:50:13 Aleksandra King: I think he– yeah– that's taken too far. But just to end on that note– cos I think it's become very much about being yourself– not apologising for yourself– allowing yourself to be true to yourself– to the things that you want to do– to take the risks– to go for stuff– to expand in that personality bubble, or whatever it is. But there's a thing about having the confidence to do that– and then there's the other thing about having the confidence to put that forward into the world– because obviously then you've got eyes on you– you put yourself out there– you have a big personality– you do it– you're doing something– and the people are looking– and then talking starts– all that stuff.

00:50:45 Lewis Ellis: If anyone ever gets really bored and you want to scroll back through 700 posts on Instagram– there's two posts that my Instagram starts with. The first is a note– from my notes– screenshot of my notes– and when I was 23 years old, I decided I wasn't going to do the same as everyone else– full stop– and I wrote this huge, long manifesto, essentially. I screenshotted and I shared it on social media– because I said– this is the most visible way I can share who I'm going to be when I get older. It's still there now. And then the second post following that– so you'll see who I am as a kid– cos it's like– I refuse to grow up– I refuse– I will tell silly jokes– and blah, blah, blah. And then the next post is– first they will ignore you– then they will laugh at you– then they will fight you– and then you will win. And that is the process that every single person– if you want to achieve in any area– you will go through. If you point me to one successful person– I will– and I will show you a million critics of that person. Yeah– first they will ignore you– then they will laugh at you– and most people drop off at the laughing bit, because it's too much. When they start to fight you– that's when you really go– maybe I shouldn't do this– and then they just drag you back– they drag you back into their world. But then eventually, if you can push through that– you will win. And it's just that simple.

00:51:51 Aleksandra King: Yeah– they do try to drag you back in their world– because– why should you get to do something different? Why should you get to be successful in that space? Why are you that way and I'm not– that's– I don't like that. And that's what– all this– like– a lot of the lash out and trolling is all about. It's– why do you get to do that and I don't– that's how it– that's what it boils down to.

00:52:05 Lewis Ellis: But actually– any single successful person in the world– show me them– and show me one without a– I'm talking about millions of critics– any single one of them will have a million critics. Because you cannot be– you cannot grow– you cannot be obvious in the world and have everybody like you. It just is not possible.

00:52:23 Aleksandra King: Yeah– you can't be visible and not be talked about– and if you're not talked about, you're not visible– and that's not a good thing.

00:52:29 Lewis Ellis: Yeah, man.

00:52:31 Aleksandra King: Actually– not everyone wants to be visible– but then–

00:52:33 Lewis Ellis: No– it's a space for those who want to be, isn't it. Even in your industries– even the ones that are faceless, and you don't have a personal brand– in their industries, they'll experience those things. Yeah.

00:52:42 Aleksandra King: Yeah– Lewis, it's been educational– you've been– it's been very interesting speaking to you– it's been really interesting– and I love the whole perspective on the being yourself.

00:52:52 Lewis Ellis: Who knows if I'm right– we'll find out in 10 years. I'm going to watch this, by the way– I'm going to– I save stuff like this to watch back in 5 and 10– because I want to know if what I said was right.

00:53:01 Aleksandra King: Yeah– also to see how far you've come.

00:53:03 Lewis Ellis: Good– we'll do that later. Thank you for inviting me.

00:53:06 Aleksandra King: Thank you for coming on the podcast.

00:53:08 Lewis Ellis: Thank you.